3 top tips from Murray Phillips:
1. Challenge everyone about where’s the business going
Whether you are an Accountant or Lawyer or EOS Implementer – go away for a weekend and sit down. Challenge everyone about where’s the business going. You can’t be the single voice of the business, it has to be a team environment. If you don’t bring the team into it, they’re not going to buy your decisions going forward.
2. Start Early
The day you start your business is the day you start to plan your exit. There are basically three buyers out there. Your family – who typically don’t want to be in the business, but they’re looking at the goodwill of their father or mother in taking the Passover. Your management or going to the market. You have to be ready, because if you’re not ready – you’re a real estate transaction.
3. Have someone to come in as a mystery shopper
You want the mystery shopper for your administration area or your sales area, and then your production area. The mystery shopper can tell you where it’s performing or not performing. So, you’ve got time to correct it. Because at the end of the day, what they see is what a buyer sees. You’ve always got to position yourself as not what you want to sell. It’s what is the buyer wanting to buy?
You may reach Murray here: firstname.lastname@example.org
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Debra Chantry-Taylor 0:04
Welcome to another episode of Better Business Better Life. I’m your host, Debra Chantry-Taylor. I’m passionate about helping entrepreneurs and their leadership teams get what they want out of business and life. On the show, I invite successful business owners and expert speakers to share their successes. They are open and honest about the highs and lows of business and also life as a business owner. We want to share those learnings with you to inspire you, but also to help you avoid some of the common mistakes. My hope is that you take something from each of these short episodes that you can put into action to help you get what you want, not only out of your business, but also your life. So good morning and welcome to another episode of Better Business better life. Today I am joined by Murray Phillips, who is a colleague of mine, and we do a lot of work together. Murray is a Chartered Accountant. He’s a business advisory specialist. And he has a business called Insight CA. But he’s also just about to launch and probably will have launched with and this comes online and new business called Cash Out Catalyst. And Cash Out Catalyst from what I understand is all about working out how you get the most money out of your business when you’re ready to sell it. Is that right?
Murray Phillips 0:55
Debra Chantry-Taylor 0:56
Yeah. Brilliant. So welcome, Murray , good to have you here.
Murray Phillips 0:59
Well, yeah, thank you for the opportunity.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 1:02
Absolutely! Looking forward to having a chat to you. So we’re going to talk today about exit strategy and planning and what that looks like. But before we do that, I would love to just hear a little about Murray as the person. So if you could share with me a professional or personal best from your life, that would be really helpful.
Murray Phillips 1:17
I think as Chartered Accountants all about helping those around you, we go into business, and we know a specialty or trade, but we don’t know everything about running a business. And it’s trying to educate the client, or potential client to understand that there are professionals out there to drive your business forward. So that’s where Insight CA comes in as a business advisor. And following on from there, that’s where Cash Out Catalyst will come in, in helping you to exit your business.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 1:20
So that’s what you love to do from professional, what about personally? What do you love to do outside of work? What’s been your personal best in your life so far?
Murray Phillips 1:40
Pre-COVID I used to enjoy swimming and going for walks. Swimming is off the agenda at the moment. But then I’ve got three grandchildren who I like to spend time with.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 2:10
Excellent. Okay, where are they? Here in Auckland?
Murray Phillips 2:12
One is in Auckland, and two in Rotorua.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 2:15
Brilliant. Okay, cool. So we are going to talk a little bit about exit strategy and plan. But before we do that, I’d love to hear your stories about how did you get into accounting? Why did you get into accounting because to me that feels like a job I could never do. And then obviously, it’s morphed into kind of business consulting as well. So tell me a little about your, your history and your story.
Murray Phillips 2:34
So I’m one of five boys in my family. We owned a farm, my father was blind. And so we had to exit that. While we left it, we went to live in town, and then onto boarding school. But in my holidays, I used to go and work for the Chartered Accountant. And I got a feel for it. Because initially I was going to leave school and I was going to be a school teacher. I decided no, there’s too much stress with it. So I had to find another avenue. I then said, I’d like to be a chef. And I said no all shifts effect. I’m there already. So let’s go into a profession. And accounting was that.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 3:17
Okay. And you’ve obviously been working with a lot of clients over your time. What is the biggest challenge that you see with most businesses that you work with? Is there a common theme?
Murray Phillips 3:29
Yeah, they all go into business. And they typically go in and fundamentally, when you understand it, they brought themselves a job, right? And they, unless they actually surround themselves, get the expert advice to help them grow their business, they won’t have a business to sell when they exit. So one of my slogans in the Cash Out Catalyst is don’t let your lifetime work retire with you.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 3:54
Love it. Yeah, that makes so much sense. And it is really interesting. So I know I certainly have experienced it is that people don’t start thinking about preparing the business for sale until they’re actually ready to sell it. And that’s generally three to five years too late, because you need to put the work in beforehand, to get the best possible value out of it.
Murray Phillips 4:11
So one of my sermons that I preaches, the day you start your business is the day you start to plan your exit, okay? Because at the end of the day, when you’re going to exit, you don’t know, are you selling it to your family? Which is one sale price? Are you going to sell it to your management, which is the selling price? Are you going on the market, each of those have a different philosophy, but you’ve got to, you’ve got to be in the start with systemize the business the business can’t be about you. It’s got to be about a brand or a product or service, but not you. Because when you get to retire, you typically just close the door.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 4:45
That’s fair enough. And I suppose you know, because I often think we may not go into business thinking about the fact that we’re wanting to sell it, but it isn’t just about selling it as but actually how do you get yourself out of it when you’re ready to get out of it.
Murray Phillips 4:45
The thing is, so often you could have the unforeseen circumstance where you have a heart attack, you have a stroke, whatever, you have a major car accident. How do you get out? You haven’t planned, right? So not only would insurance help, that, if you had a strategy in place to start with, it was documented, it was reviewed by your Chartered Accountant and your legal team, then the way forward is fundamental.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 5:28
Okay. So what do people think about when they’re thinking about an exit strategy as such?
Murray Phillips 5:36
In Panel theme of Cash Out catalyst is all about, Cash Out Catalyst has been launched as a three stage educational program, right? It’s all about systemize your businesses, someone else can actually do the work, right? So in other words, they will take you probably 12 to 24 months, every system, every process has to be documented. It’s got to be documented in such a way that I could walk in and I could, as a mystery shopper, step into your shoes and do your work. Following your process.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 6:10
Excuse me for a second, we have a couple of dogs in the Podcast room this afternoon.
Murray Phillips 6:18
Okay. And then, having systemized your business, you need to fundamentally have someone come out who was not engaged in your business come in and see if they can actually understand them in follow some of your processes and fine tune them. The second part of that strategy within Cash Out Catalyst is replace yourself. Right? So the idea is that you, as the business owner are so engrossed in your business that your staff become order takers, right? What we’ve got to do is we got to change that philosophy. And that will come through systemization, so that someone else can pick up and do your tasks, and that you change your whole philosophy. So you do what I call work above the line. In other words, you as the investor should be looking for ROI on your business, you engage a manager, and he works below the line. And he’s all about supervising the employees and getting the production through to satisfy you as the investor, right? So there is a process there. So the objective of replacing yourself is that you can still work in the business. But you’re not the key focus that you can go and take three or six months off, and come back and find that the businesses run fundamentally as good if not better.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 7:40
Most often better, I must admit, but yes.
Murray Phillips 7:44
Hey, if it runs better, systemization is working. Yes. And you know, you’re ready for sale.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 7:49
Murray Phillips 7:50
And the third part, the third part is what I call Record. So it’s all about, first of all, get your key metrics, in terms of financial performance, keep them reviewed, because you’ve got to get them in such a way that the buyer can see the results. So you don’t have to suit yourself as management accounts, you haven’t buy already. So you take out all of the personal expenses of the business. And, sorry, personal expenses, means going to pay more tax. But at the end of the day, it gives you a better return on investment when you apply a multiple, so you record those. It can take three or four months. Yep, you want to do it inside a financial year. And then you want two or three years of improvement after that, because you’ve got to show the investor, what are the improvements that have been made? So not only is it financial numbers, at the end becomes all that so shall we say the non financial, all the metrics about your CRM system, how well they’re performing? How is your staff performing? What’s your hit rate on your website, or any other social platforms that you’re on? It’s getting all of those metrics. So then on financials and from there, it go systems improvement all the way through. And it’s no good coming to us today to say, hey, I want to go to the market. If you come to us now and say you want to go the market, you’re a real estate transaction. Right. So you’ve got to plan it is to proceed three to five years in advance. In better still start planning the day you start the business. Yeah. Because you don’t know when you’re going to if you should be unfortunate to have an excellent How do you get out?
Debra Chantry-Taylor 9:48
Yeah, but it’s more than that. Because like you said, it’s sort of for you want to have an asset that has some real value by the time you choose to retirement could be 40 50 60 70. It doesn’t matter.
Murray Phillips 9:58
Yeah, with today’s technology, shall we say, the computer geeks, particular phobes. They’re bored within as soon as they’ve got a product launch that’s operating, they’re bored – they want out, right? And then they’re on to the next venture. So now it’s not age restricted. It’s, shall we say, maturity of the business when the business is ready. Yep. You should be ready.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 10:23
Fair enough. So what are the common pitfalls? What do you see in the businesses that you work with that mean that businesses just sort of plateau and don’t move beyond where they possibly could?
Murray Phillips 10:34
Typically, they haven’t had a Chartered Accountant or Business Advisor actively involved. They consider it an overhead. Well, my answer to that is if I’m just doing a tax return, I’m an overhead. But if I’m actually helping you grow your business, I’m an investment, because I’m actually helping you grow your turnover, your profitability, and the overall wealth and well being of your employees as well. Yeah.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 10:59
So to be fair, though, there are definitely accountants out there who are just about you know, during the legislative stuff and stuff that needs to be done. Then there are people like yourself, who actually add some value around that as well. And I actually call it Management Accounting when I used to work in big firms. So you’d have a number of different types of accountants and the accountants were there for the legislative part of it, make sure there was done. And there were those who are producing the numbers that could actually help you make informed decisions.
Murray Phillips 11:23
Yeah. So if I go into a business one, I will look at the numbers. But I want to understand the health and well being of the business owner, where’s the psyche? A good walk around the premises will actually also tell you beyond what the numbers tell you. Is the place clean and tidy? Is there an orderly? Could someone walk through it? Could someone do a stocktake? You look at things like is talking inventory? Is a dusty pile over there? Is that obsolete shouldn’t be in the business? Why not write it out? Because one, is an overhead carrying it. Two, its an overhead in rent, three is an overhead, if you could, in terms of you could have used that money elsewhere. You might break even on it, but it’s what I call the circular flow of cash, got rid of it. It tidies up your balance sheet, and allows you to use that money again. Okay, fair enough. So I go in is what I call, I offer a sounding board solution. So for my clients. Yes, I am the Chartered Accountant, but they don’t make informed financial decisions or even HR decisions without saying, ‘Hey Murray, what do you think of this?’ So I bring a different perspective to it, to say, ‘Have you thought of this? Have you thought of it?’ They allowed them to make the decision?
Debra Chantry-Taylor 12:46
Okay so, want to share some experiences with the listeners that they can actually, you know, look for those pitfalls and understand where they might be going wrong, or what the little things they could be doing to improve what they’re doing. Obviously, yes, there is, you know, not getting somebody involved, like a Chartered Accountant, or a business advisor kind of reasonably early on has a massive impact. What else have you seen that they – because I know from my experience, not so much now, because I’m dealing with much bigger clients, but at the ice house with smaller clients, I had clients who never looked at their accounts, you know, they had zero and they didn’t even look on a weekly basis, let alone anything more than that. So they just would wait till the end of the year until they got their accounts back. And then they go, Oh, it wasn’t a great year, or oh, it was a good year. So is it so common?
Murray Phillips 13:29
Yes, it is. And when I when I take on new clients, or before I take on clients, I want to understand the financial literacy. And the idea is if it’s low – part of my process of educating them is to do that. Yeah, management accounts or something, but unless they understand what those numbers are, how those numbers were generated. Yeah, that means nothing to them. Yes, it’s all but it’s what I call allowing them to make an informed decisions with financial backing.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 14:00
I used to call it loving your numbers. And you should love this stuff. I mean, I’m not an accountant. I don’t particularly love numbers, but I love it. I love looking at the numbers of the business, because it gave me a really good indication of where things were going. And not just the financial numbers, but like you said, the other metrics and things that we measure as well.
Murray Phillips 14:15
So what I say to clients, and prospective clients is if you’re reading your financial numbers, you see the same clutter every day. I come in as an outsider, and I’ll pick numbers. I’ll say ‘Oh, there’s a 3 in there. That’s wrong’. Why? And then we’ll investigate and explore it. As I say, you’re seeing your numbers day in and day out. And you can’t see the obvious.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 14:43
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Okay, what are the things why people do that?
Murray Phillips 14:47
I found, yeah. I did a due diligence process where I was part of the selling process, right. And there, it’s all about communication. So we were owned by a relatively wealthy person here in New Zealand, he decided to put our business on the market for sale, he hadn’t informed the Managing Director of my company, right. And he lost a lot of money as a result of that. Now, the reason he lost money was he didn’t tell us he’s going to post us on the market, because we could have told him what was lying around in terms of profit, right? We, at that time – we had one and a half million tucked away in the balance sheet, which had he known that added to the value of how profitable the business was, he could have asked for a higher exit price. So it’s all about communication. You don’t have to be that public. But you know, at least inform your MD and your finance person, that, hey, this is what we’re thinking of doing. So that was a costly mistake.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 15:55
Yeah. And I also find that you know, sometimes by doing that, as well, there are sometimes people who are in the business who might be the potential buyers.
Murray Phillips 16:03
Debra Chantry-Taylor 16:04
Yeah, you know, the thing about management buyouts happens quite a lot. So actually, first of all, good to get them on the same page. So they know what’s going on and get them on your site and helping you but potentially, they might actually go, ‘Hey, we could be interested in actually taking this over.
Murray Phillips 16:17
Yeah. So you know, if you’re getting yourself into that scenario, it’s all about how healthy and how clean is your balance sheet? In your premises? Yeah. It gives you an indication. Yeah, stock is a big one. Too often people buy stocks and think they’ve got to hold six months worth of stock. Pre COVID – If your supplier was in your local jurisdiction, why are you holding six months stock? Why don’t you change your philosophy and get down to adjust in time. In other words, you’re holding say, six weeks stock maximum, not six months, that has a huge cash injection to the business, if you can change your mindset.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 17:01
Because COVID has run relatively stuff. I’ve got a few clients who are, you know, big importers, and they have literally had to almost quadruple, they kind of stopped importing at the moment just to make sure that they’re actually able to supply and it’s worked in their favor, because it means that actually, when people have wanted to buy others haven’t had that stock holding, and they were able to supply it, but it has a huge, huge cash come back to the business.
Murray Phillips 17:26
I’ll have to change my example going forward.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 17:28
It still makes perfect sense. And I still think I mean, depends that’s importing from overseas. That’s additional kind of consequences. But yes, if the person is just on the roads, a local supplier.
Murray Phillips 17:40
You take a technology company, retail and a fashion, why are they constantly got sales? Yes, it’s seasonal. So it’s fashionable for three months or four months, and then it’s a change of season. So if you can reduce your stock carry in terms of how long you’re stocking it as opposed to when are you getting it just in time? It has a huge impact.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 18:07
Yeah, that’s true. Okay.So tell me a little bit about the Cash Out Catalyst. So where did that idea come from? And what does it look like in terms of if somebody was interested in finding out more about it? What do they do?
Murray Phillips 18:19
So CashOut Catalyst, when we launch it within the next month, which is likely to be the month of May, its all about helping business owners be informed so that they, as we say, ‘don’t let your lifetime’s work retire with you.’ So it’s, it’s taking them through that educational process. Some of that we would do, and some of that we would outsource, especially things around systemization. But where it started was that. As I said earlier, in the podcast, I was one of five boys, we had a farm, we had to move off it due to my father’s loss of eyesight. And then over time, we decided we needed to sell it, right. It’s a case of how well was he informed about getting it ready for sale? Right? You can talk stock capacities in anything like that. But financially, was the numbers ready? They weren’t. So I found or I consider that we left a lot of money on the table that we could have got. So I always looked at that. And then at the end, I’ve given you the example of one of my clients who actually lost a lot of money or left a lot of money on the table because he wasn’t informed. So I thought no, business owners need to be informed. Too often they buy themselves a job. And it’s at the end of the day they closed the doors. They don’t consider the situation of maybe outsourcing a lot of the non functional work that they do. As paperwork, they could quite easily be apply or sent to the agent to do. And that you concentrate on your core activity. I give an example, rightly or wrongly, should I, other than for exercise? Should I mowe my lawns? Which will take me an hour and a half? And cost me 60 bucks? Or should I be out there selling my services? It may be yet three, four or $500. Right?
Debra Chantry-Taylor 20:27
Yeah, I use the same example around cleaning as well. I mean, I actually, I do say I’m half German, I’m an excellent cleaner, you know, I really do an amazing job. But in reality, it’s something I don’t enjoy, either are quite hated. And it’s a 25 hour, week or $25 an hour job. Whereas yes, if I had those three or four hours to myself, I’ve got two options. First of all, I can probably generate several $1,000. Or secondly does have some time. And let’s face it, time is one of the most important assets that we don’t get. It’s, it’s a limited resource. Yeah. So sometimes even just having that time for it is worth it. Yeah.
Murray Phillips 21:00
So I’ve, if I give you an example, like I’ve got a client, we’re going to use the name, Paul. So Paul started this business six years ago. He works 70 odd hours a week in the business. He is, shall we say, a control person.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 21:18
Control Freak – where we have a few of those.
Murray Phillips 21:21
So in other words, he’s the order taker. He’s the invoicer. He’s the closer, etc, right? Yes. He doesn’t feel as though the business can do it any better than he can do it. So he hasn’t got the, in his eyes, the support of his employees. He’s at a stage where six or seven years into the business. He knows that within eight to 10 years, he’s going to retire. He’s tired. He’s often caught having 40 winks at this. Yeah, he’s working six days a week. Yes. So I had to go in there and explain a few things to him about exit and risk. And quite quickly, he saw that by engaging a new employee or one of the existing employees to do the follow up calls from a sales calls, that he started to get the confirmation of sales orders. He was just too busy to do any follow up. So there was no follow up happening. Right. So you did that we engaged a draftsman as opposed to having one outside, we went inside either drafting and quoting. So now this client, Paul has gained a day a week that he can now either spend with his family or work on the business. Right. So the next part of that process is he needs to start delegating, which he has done his financials. And understand, because in 8 to 10 years, he’s going to retire and so the business is a major form of his investment. And we need to make sure it’s sale ready.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 23:08
Yeah. Fair enough.
Murray Phillips 23:10
Profitability because he’s delegated someone to do the sales follow up. profitability, sorry, turnover is increased by 40%. And his GP is risen by a minimum of five on space of 12 months. Yeah. Yeah, it’s all about making your employees take control. Instead of them being order takers, they can make informed decisions themselves.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 23:38
We call Delegate and Elevate and its basically around, making sure that you are elevated up to the things that you are really good at really great and love, and allow other people because there are people who actually enjoy doing that $25 an hour work and actually quite good at it. Whereas when you’re doing it, not only is it a waste of your financial resource in terms of what you might charge out, but also in that real negative kind of space of ‘I don’t encouraging’ voice.
Murray Phillips 24:05
In Paul’s case, it’s a case of he was doing too many functions, because he didn’t believe that the business could survive without them. So you’ve got to get them to a stage where he could take time off. And as we say, if you if you can get to three to six months without actually having to pick up the phone. That’s correct. Yeah. Okay, cool. That’s, that’s the philosophy of Cash Out Catalyst. Yeah.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 24:28
Okay. Perfect! So that’s going to be online. And so the website address for cash out catalyst is?
Murray Phillips 24:34
w w w dot cash out catalyst.com.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 24:37
Okay, that’s pretty simple. We’ll have a look at that. So three top tips. Like if you had to give something that the listeners can go away and do straight away, what were the three top tips you would say to business owners, generally our listeners are established business owners, so they might have somewhere between 10 to 30 staff. But they’re, yeah, they’re still looking to feature what they can do?
Murray Phillips 25:01
Employee external advisors, whether they’re accountants or lawyers or EOS consultants and drill down, yeah, go away for a weekend and sit down and challenge everyone about where’s the business going? Yeah. Okay. You can’t be the single voice of the business, it has to have a team environment. So if you don’t bring the team into it, they’re not going to buy your decisions going forward.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 25:31
So it’s what it’s all about EOS is about. And it’s really interesting. I was just talking to an actual client of mine on a podcast a while ago, and she was saying that it was her husband and herself initially doing everything in the business. And when they brought on the team members, that meant that the team was, you know, knew what was going on felt like they were part of that decision making. But it also means they haven’t got all that stress all on themselves, and only themselves
Murray Phillips 25:52
The fear here is the fear of letting employees know some of the financial information. They don’t need to know everything, they just need to know what are the drivers that affect their side of the business.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 26:06
I also find and this is just a mass generalization, but in most businesses, they’re scared of showing the numbers because they think employees will kind of go. But in actual fact, most of the time, they actually think the owners make more money than the owners actually, do. You start sharing those figures, it becomes Oh, okay. I didn’t realize that it wasn’t as good as that – because they just look at the top line fitters we are we’re turning over $20 million, you know, we should be millionaires, when they look at the bottom line, it makes a bit of a reality check.
Murray Phillips 26:34
Totally, I support that.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 26:36
Okay. Number two, what’s your number two?
Murray Phillips 26:39
Start early. Yep.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 26:41
So you said early on, really the day that you open your doors as a day, you should be thinking about what you’re gonna do when you close?
Murray Phillips 26:48
Yes, people might think that’s a bit weird. But hey, at the end of the day, there are basically three buyers out there, right? There’s your family, yes, who typically don’t want to be in the business, but they’re looking at the goodwill of their father or mother in taking the Passover. Is it your management? Are you going to the market? Yeah, you gotta be ready. Because if you’re not ready, you’re a real estate transaction.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 27:14
And let me think about it. All of the best business books, Stephen Covey’s Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, it was all about start with the end in mind and know where you’re headed, and then it’ll become a whole lot easier getting there. Okay, perfect. And number three?
Murray Phillips 27:26
It’s all part of the same, but I think it’s, you know, start Systemising. Basically you want someone to come in as, like, I’ll use the term mystery shopper. You want the mystery shopper for certain your administration area, and then your sales area, and then your production area can tell you as an outsider, where it’s performing or not performing. So you’ve got time to correct it because at the end of the day, what they see is what a buyer sees. You’ve always got to position yourself as not what you want to sell. It’s what is the buyer wanting to buy? And they’re quite different.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 28:05
True, very true. Okay, perfect. So if people want to get in contact with you, personally, what’s the best way to get ahold of you, Murray?
Murray Phillips 28:12
I have. 0800 cash out. Okay, yeah. And, or pre launch of Cash Out Catalyst as a company, email@example.com
Debra Chantry-Taylor 28:32
Murray Phillips 28:32
Happy to chat to anyone. Yeah. Because it’s just sometimes it’s just guidance. Have you thought about this? Have you thought about that, and go from there.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 28:41
It’s the power of that external person, I find it’s often that we are so caught up in, you know, the weeds and the day to day firefighting. And we just can’t lift ourselves out. And, and we’re very fortunate, as you know, as people who come in from the outside, we’re like a coach, right? I will actually ever watch what’s going on the playing field, we are able to take our experiences from other businesses and ask whenever I don’t tell me what to do. But I ask the questions. That’s interesting. Tell me a bit more about that, or Yeah,
Murray Phillips 29:06
Yeah. And I was at a recent networking meeting where the Business Brokers said that 90% of businesses don’t sell. Yeah. Wow. And that is because there wasn’t anything to sell, because the brain is the individual. So never, never start a business using your personal name. Because your personal name carries with you and doesn’t really carry with the new owner. Yeah,
Debra Chantry-Taylor 29:35
I’m gonna change that little bit that there when if you think about the big consulting firms PwC were three guys called Price Waterhouse and Coopers. Yeah. So in the professional services, it can work for a period of time, but yes, eventually, if it’s a trade, it’s got to be more than just the people. Yep, yep. Yep. Yeah, completely agree. Hey, look, thank you so much. It’s been really fun
Murray Phillips 29:55
To start talking about Cash Out Catalyst.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 29:58
I look forward to seeing it launch. I guess by the time this podcast comes out it might well be launched so yep cash out catalyst.com And that’s Murray Phillips Thank you very much for your time
Murray Phillips 30:06
Thanks very much, thank you
Professional EOS Implementer | Entrepreneurial Leadership & Business Coach | Business Owner
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