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Unlocking EOS Brilliance for Self-Implementers I Adam Harris & Debra Chantry-Taylor I Ep 177

Top Tips From Adam Harris.

1. Commitment and Consistency:

“Commit, commit, and have the consistency. I think that’s the first thing. The second thing is, is that it, like you said, it’s a journey, and there’s going to be times when it’s going to be tough, and the easy thing to do is to just go blaming the system, blaming EOS. And, you know, actually, that’s the worst thing that you can possibly do. And you know, when you get to that point is that it’s probably you reflect on some of the other things that you’ve started and not necessarily finished. I know that I’m guilty of not being a complete finisher, right? But, but I think it’s really, really important, is that. If you’re going to do this, you really got to kind of, you know, kind of commit.”

2. Understand the Proven Process:

“And that external objectivity is really, really important, is that, you know, you know, a self implementing company might well go, oh, you know, we’ve only hit one of our seven rocks. Oh, well. And everybody’s like, Oh. And then it’s like, Okay, guys, how. On a second, let’s just take a step back to what actually, you know, it’s a learning point. What? What can we take from this and knowing, understanding the journey, because we’ve been through it many times with any other organization, we’ve got that experience and that ability to benchmark and kind of put the arm around the shoulder and go, actually, you know what you actually do them back then you think, really, why? Because we can tell you, because we’ve got the experience.”

3. Have the Right Conversations:

“My expectation of today is that I’m going to ask one question, where I’m going to make each of you feel uncomfortable, and I’m doing that from a position of care, because if I’m not asking the question, then none of you are going to be asking the question. And that’s, that’s where, that’s where the the marginal gains then come. Because, you know, like any coach, you know when to push, and you then know when to kind of support, you know. And that external objectivity is really, really important, is that, you know, you know, a self implementing company might well go, oh, you know, we’ve only hit one of our seven rocks. Oh, well. And everybody’s like, Oh. And then it’s like, Okay, guys, how. On a second, let’s just take a step back to what actually, you know, it’s a learning point.”




eos, implementing, implementer, business, entrepreneur, level, challenge, consistency, tools, team, read, rocks, clarity, conversation, meeting, important, traction, work, observed, entrepreneurial 

Debra Chantry-Taylor 00:31

Welcome to another episode of Better Business, Better Life. I’m your host, Debra Chantry Taylor. Taylor and I’m passionate about helping entrepreneurs lead their ideal lives by creating better businesses. 


Debra Chantry-Taylor 00:49 

I’m a certified EOS implementer, an FBA accredited family business advisor and a business owner myself with several business interests.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 01:03 

A little while ago, I got my colleague and fellow EOS implementer, Adam Harris, onto the show, and we had such a great time talking about EOS and tools and case studies and examples of our own clients, we decided we should make it a regular occurrence. So welcome to another episode of Deborah and Adam talk EOS. Welcome to the show. Adam, great to see you.  


Adam Harris 01:23 

Great to be here.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 01:25 

That’s amazing. I’m looking forward to talking about all things EOS with you. So it’s been a while since we’ve had you on the show. I think you were last on the show back in might have even been 18 months ago, possibly.   


Adam Harris 01:34  

Yeah, it feels I’d either was thinking about becoming an EOS implementer or just become a full time EOS implementer? So yeah, it’s been a while.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 01:44 

Been a while, so it’s good to have you back on so now obviously you and I working really closely together, doing a lot of work around Eos, and so the purpose of the podcast this time around is to actually share some of our experiences working with clients and what going on there. So why don’t we start with your story? So why did you become an EOS implementer?  


Adam Harris 02:00  

Long story short. So I used to be a chair for an organization called Vistage.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 02:06 

So there’s also tech, right? This is a tech of the same thing, yeah. 


Adam Harris 02:09 

Although tech actually in in Australia, New Zealand is literally just going through a rebrand at the moment, so they’re actually becoming. 


Debra Chantry-Taylor 02:14 

Oh good. Okay, cool.  


Adam Harris 02:16 

So I was running a mastermind group for 16 chief executives, and one of my members said, Oh, I’ve just read this book called traction. So this is going back about eight years ago. 


Adam Harris 02:26 

I need somebody. And EOS, at that point wasn’t even, you know, anywhere really, outside, other than the US. So he said, “Look, I need somebody to help implement it.” I’m like, okay, cool. And I kind of just as I kind of started reading traction, and I started supporting this company. Through it, I kind of fell in love. And there was two things for me. One was the simplicity of it, and then the second thing for me was about the ability to cascade it through the through an organization. I’ve seen a lot of tools and processes that can be used. In fact, I wrote a book called the check in strategy journal, but this the way that it was kind of all put together, just kind of made sense. So I kind of worked in the UK, probably for about four or five years, supporting companies doing EOS, not as a kind of a full time EOS implementer. And then when we moved to New Zealand, and we moved to New Zealand, partly because of EOS, we set our 10 year target. Our 10 year target was to live nomadically, and New Zealand is the first step on that journey. 


Adam Harris 03:27 

And about three years ago, read EOS life, probably not long after you popped in to see us down in New pluma. And it was like actually listening to EOS live, do what you love with people that you love being compensated accordingly, with time for other pursuits making a huge difference. It’s like, did you know what the best work I was doing when I was in a session doing EOS? And it’s like, actually, you know what? Now’s the time so got involved, and that was about about 18 months ago.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 04:00 

Wow. Well, there you go. And now here we are. And of course, you still keep your hand in terms of running other businesses. Don’t you?  


Adam Harris 04:05 

Yes. So I’m also managing director of an IT company. We’ve got our own data center down in New Plymouth, and we’ve just expanded out into Hamilton, and we’re also looking extending into Australia as well. So implementing EOS in down there, and we’re starting now to get the growth that we’ve we’ve been looking for so and lots of other different things. I’m, I’m a typical visionary entrepreneur. I can’t, you know, I, I kind of, and I was, I was reflecting on this the other day. I need to be involved with things that excite me and to be challenged. If I’m standing still, I’m kind of going backwards very, very quickly. So I, you know, I have always suffered from Golden Penny syndrome. Yeah, I have to be really careful and mindful. But, yeah, I’ve got my mind has got to be challenged, otherwise I start going stale.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 04:53 

Yeah, now I think we’re off the same ilk. I mean, certainly I’ve got some involved in AI kind of security retail business, which is a very, very small shareholding. We’re involved in that business. Plus, of course, we’ve got the EOS stuff, and now we’re doing, looking at, doing the retreat, done the Hawke’s Bay and and the same sort of thing. It’s like, I love EOS, and when I’m in the session, run at my happiest place, but at the same time, I think keeping your hand in with other things makes you a better EOS implementer, because it’s not like you’ve given up work, gone off and done EOS , and sometimes EOS implements, potentially, that’s all they’re doing for a long, long time. Whereas we’ve got the benefit and the beauty of being involved in running a business at the same time as you know people,  


Adam Harris 05:33 

I feel the variety. I love going into having conversations with people, and whether that be with EOS or with anything else. And what I what I find is, is the t he variables and the differences are actually where the those little nuggets are. Yeah, like so I’ll give you an example of it. Nando’s not massively popular here in kind of New Zealand, but it was really, really big in in the UK. And what you used to do is, you used to go up to the till you ordered your food, they gave you a cockerel with a number on you, put it in the middle where they’re not in the pot, where the knives and forks were, and then they deliver your food. And after five minutes, they come in and say, hey, just want to check that everything’s all right with your food. And then they take the cockerel away. And I was like, I just observed this, like, two or three times. It’s like, actually, that checkpoint in with the customer to just ensure that everything’s all right. And I took that and implemented it within the IT business that I had at the time, and just that, that check in 24 to 36 hours after doing a server and a big, you know, big Server Install, to just go, Hey, Debra, just want to check everything’s all right.  


Adam Harris 06:40 

Actually, do you know what? We’ve still got a few niggles and bits and bits and pieces, is that kind of forehand was forewarned. So we that proactiveness, like came from just sitting in Nando’s and just kind of going from there. And I love those things on a daily basis, of just picking up and learning. Have you got any examples of of that sort?  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 06:57 

Well, I’m thinking more that I’ve now, because I’ve been doing the fractional integrator role in the AI business, and so it’s actually given me a huge insight into what my integrators must go through in the business. Working with, you know, dodgy visionaries like myself, it is really interesting to sort of be involved in different roles and just take different things from it. So I’ve realized that sometimes when I’m taking I’m talking to people about what they could be doing. I’m actually drawing on the experiences that I’m, you know, learning in my own business by taking on different roles as that meander.  


Adam Harris 07:29 

You’re a little bit more forgiving in the session room.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 07:32 

Yeah, a little bit. Not much, not much. And of course, I don’t ever tell me what to do, but I can share some experiences with others. I had this in my experience. I’m not I had a classic example. I said, going to be really vulnerable here. Our business is running on EOS, right? There’s, like, we’ve got about, I think, 14 staff now going reasonably rapidly. And you know, when we did our first planning session and we were done our focus day, lent the tool was coming to vision building, the team set wanted to set 11 rocks. Actually, they want to set 22 rocks. I went, there’s no way in the world we’re doing 22 rocks. We’re going to do 11. And I was like, no, no. We’re, we’re super smart. We can, we can, we can definitely 11. I said you can’t do 11 rocks. In my entire history of running EOS with other businesses, nobody has ever achieved anything close to that, unless is more. If everything’s important, I think it’s important. But they absolutely insisted. And so it’s like, okay, you know, you can lead a horse to water. It’s not my role to tell them what to do, so I allow them to do it. And you know, at the end of the quarter, they came back and they went, we’ve done really well. We’ve done four out of five rocks. And I went, we didn’t have five rocks. We had 11 rocks. And it’s sort of like, no, no, no. We narrowed it down to five. We decided 11 was too much. So I suppose, what am I? What am I getting to in our own business? We I’ve had to really instill that whole thing of actually, you, you need to do less is more. I need to be really honest with yourself, so you can’t say you’re doing 11 and then remove six, because it had felt a bit easier, then come back and say you’ve achieved four out of five. And so I suppose it’s been interesting. I’ve been implementing with companies now for about four and a half years. We’ve been using EOS in our small team, but we’ve been really, really good at it. Once you get a slightly bigger team, there’s definitely different elements that come into it. And so, you know, I’ve learned that actually, 


Debra Chantry-Taylor 09:04 

I’ve learned that actually, even my own team, who are EOS advocates, don’t always follow the process.  


Adam Harris 09:11 

It kind of reminds me, like I often find that there’s this, there’s this, this transition piece of, you know, you kind of do focus, day vision building, day one and two, and the energy is really, really high. And it kind of, for me, often feels that there’s a dip kind of going, you know, coming in around q1 q2 possibly q3 I think it depends on the on the the organization where kind of now getting real, and we’re, we’re starting to follow the process. And I think that that’s the time, I think for some companies, when they’re probably at the most vulnerable, because it’s, it’s really now beginning to kind of get hard. And there’s this, there’s this piece around the changing culture, with regards to the setting of the rocks, the expectation and moving from, you know, culturally, probably, for a lot of people, what was different before, kind of the finger pointing the blame game is to where and what is it that. 


Adam Harris 10:00 

We need to do to set ourselves up for kind of, kind of success. Something just came through to me while you were talking, what’s the difference then? Because you you mentioned about, like, you know, 22 rocks, which is kind of, you know?


Debra Chantry-Taylor 10:13 



Adam Harris 10:14 

What’s the difference then between a rock and a to do? 


Debra Chantry-Taylor 10:18 

So, a rock, the way I always kind of describe it, is, it is a distinct piece of work that’s going to move the needle on the business. It’s the stuff that makes a business go better, be more efficient, whatever it might be, and it is a distinct piece of work that cannot be done in a short time. Versus a to do is an action point in seven days. It’s a very, very small, bite sized piece of work often comes from solving issues in a weekly meeting that is about your business as usual, and you add a to do comes out of solving that issue. Whereas a rock is a distinct piece of work over 90 days, where we go, this piece of work can be done within 90 days, and will really improve the way the business is run. It will move the needle. 


Adam Harris 10:54 



Debra Chantry-Taylor 10:56 

And you can’t, you know, if you think about it the way I always say, so a 90 day rock, you kind of got 90 days to do it, but you don’t really, because if you use the Pareto Principle 80/20, 80% of your time is spent on business as usual, which is monitored by your scorecard. That’s the stuff that keeps the doors open, keeps the money coming in, keeps everybody paid. 20% is the rocks, which is the important stuff that actually moves the needle. Which means you’ve only actually got one day out of five in total to spend on that important stuff that moves the needle. Of that, you’ve got meetings. So you probably got three hours of your level, 10 meetings out of that. So that leads you to five hours a week. So that’s really only one hour a day that you’ve got to work on rocks. So when you start to think about a rock, it shouldn’t be a boulder. That is a we’re going to install a new CRM system. You’re not, you know, you’re not going to, like, 90 days. What is the rock? What is a distinct piece of work that I can do in about five hours a week over 13 weeks to actually move that needle.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 11:46 

So with the CRM system example, it might be in the next 90 days. Or that we really want to do is look at what we currently have, where the gaps are, come up with a functional requirements, look at a few options, and that’s kind of it. So that would be the first phase.  


Adam Harris 12:00 

And I think it’s often also important to, you know, and depending on what’s going on in the session, but definitely within 48 hours, is to take those rocks and actually kind of sit down and go, right, okay, if I was going to do a to do list for the next 12 week, what’s, what’s those milestones that I need to be hitting? So you’re almost kind of creating the roadmap, yeah, and, you know, you know that saying, kind of, you know, we say often within EOS, you know, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time? I really think that there’s a mindset shift that people need to go through, is to get into the stage and the habit of kind of breaking things down. You know, the stuff that’s right in front of us really, really easy. The stuff in the, you know, out in the future is kind of blurry. It’s it’s that kind of 90 mile, uh, 90 day march. And when you can get that consistency going individually and as a collective team like you know, we’ve both seen some phenomenal results in how things happen with, uh, with companies.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 12:55  

And these days I actually with most of my teams, I will get them to at least highlight four or five main milestones in the session. So then I say, now, in your next meeting, with the next 48 hours, you’re going to get really granular around that and be really certain what’s got to be done and put the dates on it. Because we don’t put dates on that. We just got these are five key things. What does success look like? So we’ve got the end goal, which is the number five milestone, that’s complete success. The rock is completed. The other four, like, what are the bits in between we’re going to get around to doing? And then they have to go away and think very carefully. Are those the main things? What are the time frames that they should be put on those? Because that gives them a chance to kind of check in every week and go, are we actually really on track, or are we kidding ourselves?  


Adam Harris 13:31  

So let’s talk about this aspect. Then, you know, we’re, you know, coming to a meeting, the level, time meeting, and checking in on the scorecard and the rock. What’s the role of the integrator, outside of the level 10 meeting terms of the whole business, or in terms of the rocks. What are you asking? Well, let’s go with rocks first. Because I think, you know, a lot of the times, you know, a lot of people read traction or get a grip or rocket fuel. And I often find that entrepreneurs are really too easy to understand the visionary role. They’re kind of like, Oh, my God, you got me down to a T, yeah. And then often people, you know, seeing they they go, I can see an understanding get the role of the integrator. But I’m not really sure how, where and what is it different to kind of somebody that’s just in in corner operations. So you know, first and foremost, let’s go for an overview. Perspective. First, what do you believe is the role of the integrator within a within a business?  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 14:26  

So the role of the integrator, in my mind is, I describe them as a conductor. So I’m a musician. My husband’s a musician. We like the whole music analogy. And so if you think about the visionary, is actually the composer. They’re the person who comes up with the music and decides what wants to go on. And they’re very good at being very creative around that the conductor’s role is to make sure that all of the instruments in the orchestra are executing on what the composer has put together in a way that actually works. Because sometimes composers don’t always get right either. So the integrators like that conductor who is there to kind of go, Okay, I’ve got the plan. I have to take complete ownership of that plan and enable the team to actually execute on that plan. So I have to lead them to where we’re going, manage them, hold them accountable to actually, actually execute on that, that plan, which, of course, we call the vision traction organizer or VTO. And then they’re there to help people, so removing obstacles and barriers. So when we have the level 10 meeting, we’re looking at the rocks. Let’s just say we had a rock, and it was, I don’t know the rock is a certain thing. We had to get done this 90 days. And we’ve got our four or five miles. Five milestones. We’re into kind of week five and all the way through the person who owned that rocks, going, Yes, I’m on track. Yes, I’m on track. The integration we’re looking at, going, okay. So these are the things that we agreed with, the milestones that had to happen.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 15:34 

We always trust our people to do what they’re held accountable for, but our role is to actually question it and kind of go, okay. As an integrator, you say you’re on track, but we’re supposed to have done some of these kind of key milestones. Can we drop that to the issues list and just get an update and make sure that we are on track and then be there to remove any obstacles and barriers that stopping us from getting there? So it could be that, you know, we drop it down to the issues list, it ends up being one of the issues we discussed. They find there’s an issue that’s stopping them from actually moving forward. It could be a budgetary constraint. It could be the visionary sticking their fingers into the pie. It could be a, you know, a capacity issue at the moment, and then the integrate, as well as to work with that team to remove those obstacles and barriers and get them back on track again. That’s the way I see it.  


Adam Harris 16:17  

So, really, really, really similar. I suppose the phrase that I often use as kind of a mother hen, oh, yeah, so somebody that’s, you know, and I think it’s really important to, you know, and it takes some time to change the culture in, you know, asking the right questions, you know, moving to, you know, a circle of trust. And, you know, there’s a number of things, especially that we do kind of annual. But for me, I think often it’s that mother hen who knows the right point. They’ve got, they’ve got full visibility of what’s going on, but actually what’s not going on, yep. And, you know, and I do think that it needs to often, you know, there can be bit of kid touch, which means that they’ve kind of got to, they know when to prod Yep, but they then also know when to kind of put the arm around and, you know, and do, and do that so highly often, kind of, you know, on the, you know, on the EQ scale. And then they’re just, they’re just sensing the flow of the energy as to what’s working and what what’s not working. So when we then think about the the aspects of, then, of the rocks., 


Adam Harris 17:21 

Should they be asking the questions in in the one on ones, or should that, you know, or should it be in the level 10? What’s your thoughts on? Where is the right place and time to be having the pot, the prod, or the Poke, or the, you know, the arm around.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 17:35 

So I always sort of say, if you’re running EOS purely, you don’t need to have one on ones all the time with people. You’re having a quarterly conversation about how things are going, what’s going on. You actually should be dealing with the issues that are around the rocks in that level 10 meeting. But obviously, if you see that it is a personal kind of issue you want to might want to take that offline and have a conversation with that person. But the whole point of EOS is that the whole team is there for the greater good. So just because I have ultimate accountability for a rock does not mean I actually have to do it. I have to engage with the team and get their help to do it as well. So I think that the integrator needs to make sure that if there’s a feeling that the rock isn’t on track, it is raised as an issue. The discussion around how we can resolve that issue is done with a whole team, because sometimes the ideas come from the most bizarre places, like I’ve sat in sessions where there has been a financial issue, and yet the person who comes up with the soul, if you like, for the other, the soul for that issue is not in the finance department. If somebody’s in operation, somebody’s actually on the shop floor who’s kind of gone, well, what about if we did this? So I think that the great thing about EOS is, yes, you have ultimate accountability, but we’ve got this massive brains trust in the leadership team that we can actually take issues too if we aren’t able to solve them, and they can actually help resolve them. And then the integrator is about making sure everybody is having a fair say in that they’re not there to provide the answers. They’re not there to tell people what to do. They’re there to facilitate that discussion, to get to the right answer.  


Adam Harris 18:55 

And that’s one of the things I absolutely love about EOS, is that when you get to the chain the stage of changing an organization from moving from kind of silo departmental to kind of that full understanding and visibility, and part of that is around kind of workload and rocked and, you know, and all aspects like that, but actually beginning to understand that just because I’m not in your vertical space doesn’t mean that I can’t ask some amazingly great questions that’s going to prod and poke you, or that, you know, Dave over here is going to kind of go, Well, have you thought about doing this like that? That kind of shift, you know, really, really starts changing the mindset of first and foremost, the leadership team, but then into the rest of the of the culture of the organization, because people then really begin to understand, going, oh, you know. And that’s even before we start talking about, you know, process, I begin to understand a little bit more about what goes on in your world. Because we’re all rowing in now, rowing in the same direction, heading for, you know, heading for the destination, yeah.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 19:59 

And if you think about it, in those level 10 leadership meetings, you know they there’s a representative from each major function of the business, which means you’ve actually got diversity of thought. So when you’re actually trying to solve a problem, it’s not all the accountants sitting around trying to come up with the accounting answer, or all the operations people trying to come with all sales and marketing people come with sales and marketing answers. And those rocks are, like I said at the beginning, are the things that actually move the needle and move the business forward towards that long term vision. So actually having everybody involved in those discussions as and when needed, like I said, full accountability to get on with it and do it if you can. But if you’ve got an issue, bring it up and then use all of us who will give you that perspective from an entire leadership team level. I think it’s brilliant.  


Adam Harris 20:36 

Where should we go next?  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 20:37 

So I think the level 10 meaning is a really interesting one, because I have lots of teams who sort of say, Okay, so we’re running a level 10 minutes. It’s always a game changer, no matter what team I work with when we come back to our first vision building or second vision, but I go, what’s working, what’s not working, level 10 meetings, without a doubt, are one of the top things of what’s working for them is that changes their entire organization the way that they work. But what people struggle with is, how do we take those down to a next level or an even lower level, like a couple of levels down, and do I still need to have daily stand ups, you know, regular weekly meetings with my team members, etc, etc. I’d love to hear your view on that.  


Adam Harris 21:17 

Yeah. So I think the first thing is, is that you either it’s a difficult one, because, you know, when’s the right time to do it? I like to, I like to get teams to the to the stage where they’re doing as much of it, even in in quarterlies, it’s like, I like them to be doing the work. So if we, you know, up on the board and stuff like that, I’m looking to empower them as as quickly as possible. I think it’s, for me, it’s important to get that they really know and understand how it’s working and not working, and then there really kind of needs to be a conversation to kind of go, are we all on board? You know, are we? Are we absolutely committed that this is what we’re going to do? Because, you know, it’s all well and good, and I’ve seen this happen so many times before in organizations where they pick an operating system, or they pick a process or something, they do it for a period of time, it gets a little bit difficult, and then, and then it drops away. So I think for me, there’s a real important piece is, Are you absolutely committed that EOS is going to run this business moving forward?  


Adam Harris 22:17 

If you are, we need to make sure that everybody’s on the same page once, everybody’s then on the same page. You’re going, yep, we’re fully committed. Going, right, okay, how, how will we know that this is going to be going to be working. And I think, you know, what I’ve seen work really well, is actually becomes a rock for the quarter is, you know, roll out a level 10 meetings, next level down, or the level down, so that, you know, sitting there in, you know, in the leadership level 10, is like, are we on track or off track? Oh, we’re off track. Why are we off track? You know, because this is happening. Well, this isn’t happening. The dialog and the conversation around that are feeling really, really needs to be needs to be had. And then it’s kind of a case of going right, okay, do you as a leadership team, know and understand fully? I almost kind of, you know, flip it over to them and go right. You’re going to have to you’re going to have to teach me, you know, help me. Help teach me what is, because you’re going to be doing this with your teams. So you’ve now, you’ve got to show and prove to me, but rest of the leadership team that you’re in the place that you that you can do it. And then I think once they’ve done then done that is then, right, okay, let’s go into, let’s do that. Drop it down into the departmental. But if it’s them becoming a rock, and all of them are doing it, then they’re kind of coming back and going, right, okay, so the integrator may well own the rock. Are we on track or off track?  


Adam Harris 23:33 

What’s the issues that are coming up? So we can be discussing them to go, oh, I had this situation. How do we how do we deal with it? So that checking point, I think, is really, really important. Otherwise, you get to the point of kind of three months down the line and it’s like, well, yeah, my team’s not taken to it. Oh, you know, and you could, there’s real danger of causing a lot of pain and a lot of problem. So those checking points are really, really key, yeah.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 23:57 

And I think you’re right, you’ve got to be ready to do it. And I also said a lot of my companies as well. It’s like, if you’re not ready to let go of certain meetings, because everybody wants to, I don’t let go of our daily standards. Don’t let go of this. It’s like, okay, fine. Then go ahead and do both for a while, and let’s just see how it kind of works out for you. And what I’ve found is, over time, once they get the level 10 meetings really working throughout the leadership team, the management, the next level down, the other meetings just tend to slip away, because I don’t need them anymore. But it’s hard because you know, if you’ve been doing daily stand ups and you think, you think it’s really important, then I always say, maybe they do need a statement. There’s no I think the thing about EOS, it’s a framework. There’s no absolutes. It gives you the tools to run the business more effectively, more efficiently. Have a lot more fun with it. But at the end of the day, if a daily stand up is also really adding value to the business, can be done with a weekly level 10 million. There’s no issue with that.  


Adam Harris 24:42     

Yeah, so there’s a couple of other things I’d add. I think the first thing is, is that, remember this adage, you know, in order to hear something for the first time, you need to hear it seven times. 

Debra Chantry-Taylor 24:54 

32 times now, current research says that with all the technology we’ve got going on, it’s now 32 times.  


Adam Harris 24:42     

How many times?  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 24:59  

32. Did you get that? It’s 32 times.


Adam Harris 25:02 

So there’s, I think there’s a real key thing as to how embedded EOS is into the wider business. So, you know, have the, you know, coming out of the quarter as the town hall meeting’s been happening, where the visionary has been sharing. So the commonality of the language is clear, coming out of the leadership level. 10s has there been conversations with the teams around so if you’re you’re introducing it straight from a standing start, is like, you know, people are going to go, what’s this all about? Whereas, if the terminology and the language around level 10 meetings is already there, yeah, I feel that that helps. And then obviously, the other thing is, is that there’s so much resource that is available to ensure, you know, I think formally, but also informally, is really, really key. So what, from a rollout perspective, are we going to make it everybody read, what the heck is EOS? Is there a certain amount of videos? You know, both you and I have got videos, podcasts, etc. What is it that we’re formally going to give every member of the team within, you know, that has got to listen or watch? And then where are we going to actually signpost them to, to go look, you know, if you, you know, if you’re high on fact finding, you want to load, you want to know a load of more information.  


Adam Harris 26:08 

Here’s a here’s some resources going you’re going to go to, here’s the internal library of all the kind of Eos books, etc, to make it really, really easy for people to to understand, both on the formal and on the informal.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 26:21  

Yeah. And I think that’s absolutely true. I was just thinking it’s sort of, it can be of, it can be, especially with entrepreneurs, you know, we want to move really fast, and so, you know, we come out our vision building days, we’re like, oh, we should stop and describe the whole organization. And it’s like, actually, you need to, as you said, Be committed first of all, but secondly, you need to have really mastered those tools. Because it’s like, if I, if I drive a car in a certain way, and maybe it’s not the absolute correct way, and I then start to teach you how to drive that car. You’re going to pick up on all the bad habits that I’ve already got in terms of driving the car. You’re going to drive a car that’s not quite the right way.  


Adam Harris 26:49 

Well, you’ve so my daughter’s about to start learning to drive. You’re not teaching that I haven’t consciously made the decision that I am definitely not going to teach her, because exactly like, you know, we’ve all got bad habits. And I think this is actually where the relationship with an implementer, then actually becomes really key. Is like, like, leaning on them, what’s the what’s the resources? Yep, you know, EOS themselves, uh, have got so much resources that you know, that they give away, away freely. So it’s just signposting. And the when the implementer knows and understands the business and the culture and the the level of knowledge. So, you know, you know, I said it right at the start. One of the reasons why I love EOS is the ability to be able to cascade through an organization. But even with that, within that, it’s about understanding the pitch and the level of where somebody needs to go. So somebody reading, what the heck is EOS like that? Anybody can read that it’s a nice, right? Yeah, um, get a grip. I wouldn’t be recommending that everybody should read it, because it’s really kind of from, you know, from a higher level perspective.  


Adam Harris 27:48 

So work with your implementer, either reach out to, you know, either either of us, or actually just do your own research and work out, okay? And this is why I think it’s important to have a rock. Because one of the steps, you know, one of the to do’s during the 12 weeks should be, what’s our plan? How are we going to, you know, make the resources and the training available to give these people what they need. Just turn around and going, Oh, we’re now going to do level 10 meeting, yeah. And people go, what’s a level 10 meeting? They need to understand a little bit of contact that will then allow it to kind of cement moving moving forward.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 28:23 

And I think you’re making a really good point there. The common language thing is something that’s really important. It’s like I always say to clients, I don’t care what you call these things. I prefer you use the EOS terms, but I don’t really care what you call them, as long as you all call them the same thing. So we’re not calling them KPIs, or if we are, we’re all calling them KPIs. We’re calling them measurables. We’re all calling them measurables. If we talk about level 10 meetings, they’re level 10 meetings. They’re not level 10 meetings at one level, and then there are team meeting at another level. We’ve got to make sure we have that consistency, because people need to hear it over and over again and 32 times. One of the tools I’ve been using quite a bit with my clients as recently as the mid manager meeting, and that is a really, really good tool. So when you feel okay, so the mid manager meeting is about really teaching those five foundational tools to the the mid managers that they’ve got. So the five foundational tools are our VTO, which is our vision, traction, organizer, our two page strategic plan.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 29:13 

We’ve got the the scorecard, which is the things we’re measuring, the business as usual, that 80% of the work we do. You’ve got the rocks at the stuff that’s really important, that moves the stuff forward. You’ve got the accountability chart, which is the structure we need and the accountabilities within that division or within that role to actually achieve that. And finally, you’ve got the level 10 meeting. So that’s the first part of that manager meeting. Is teaching them each of those five tools from a higher level perspective, how they fit in, what they’re there for, what they do with them. And then the second part is teaching them about LMA. And so LMA is another three letter acronym that EOS loves to use. The EOS the entrepreneur operating system, loves to use three letter acronyms. LMA is lead and manage to hold people accountable. So we’ve got five leadership abilities, five kind of management abilities, and making sure that we are equally applying those.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 29:59 

Because as a person who manages people, you have to be a leader and a manager. So we teach them what those kind of tools are and what they can use. So it’s going a little bit more in depth into how they actually manage their team, as well as those five foundational tools.  


Adam Harris 30:10 

And how do you recommend that better be done? Is that with the implementer? Or who would you be recommending in the organization? Shared that with them?  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 30:29 

So in this particular example. I’ve done it twice now with my teams, and I just think that they’ve really enjoyed it, because I take my natural teacher, that’s what I do. But there’s nothing to stop the integrated from doing it. It’s nothing to stop it would be the integrated in the organization as a best person to do that, I think. But yes, having an external person just it’s, I think I had an interview with one of my clients on a podcast just yesterday, and one of the things he said, which really kind of what struck home with me, is that he can tell his team what he thinks, I can come in and say exactly the same thing, and they’re more likely to listen to me because I’m an external person. And if you think about it, it’s absolutely true. It’s it just gives a well, it gives him a reinforcement on in terms of what he’s saying is is actually true. But then there’s an external person saying it for some reason, well, I think people listen a bit more.  


Adam Harris 31:08 

Well, validity and credibility, yeah. So, you know, you’re, you’re, in this case, you’re the expert, yeah. So there’s a reinforcement from the, you know, the visionary integrators perspective is to go, you know, it’s almost like, this is the line of God. You know, this is the reason why it’s important. But you  know, over the years as a coach, the amount of times that I’ve seen that exactly thing happen is, is that, you know, somebody says something, you know, they’ve been saying it 31 times, and all of a sudden, the 32nd time, somebody else comes in and says exactly the same thing, like, oh my god, did you hear what they just and, you know, that’s just the nature of the beast, yeah, you know that. 


Adam Harris 31:42 

You know, interestingly, how we the perception that we have as of certain individuals, from an authoritative perspective, the influence that that then has on how we do things. Like, you know, I don’t know about you, but like, if I got pulled over by the police, yeah, instantaneously, like, I’m like, what’s going on? What? What? I don’t know, what, absolutely, and, you know, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a, you know, there’s somebody in uniform. And your your brain instantly, you know, clicks in as to, you know, following the the line and the methodology that you’ve been, you know, you’ve been taught, this is how you supposed to think, yeah, yeah, that’s true.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 32:20 

So, yeah, so I think that, yeah, it’s nice to have somebody come in externally to actually do that. And also, if you’re, you know, it’s usually done when you’re a certain way through the process as well. So you’ve actually already, you know, you’ve been doing this for quite some time. By time actually do that, bringing somebody fresh in from outside just reinvigorates the team as well. They’re like, Oh, yeah, okay, this is great. Yeah, something new. Great. Yeah. 


Debra Chantry-Taylor 32:41 

What’s your favorite EOS tool? Because we’ve got the five foundational tools. We’ve got 20 tools in the in the kind of the toolbox, and then we’ve also got the additional tools as well, which we tend to pull out on an as needs basis.  


Adam Harris 32:53 

Yeah. So one that I really do love is, I do love clarity break and, you know, there’s a it’s just so incredibly simple. So I was working with a client last week, not on the US, but, you know, and it’s been, it’s been something that I’ve been doing for years as a kind of a professional coach, just that ability to give self permission, to stop blank sheet of paper, and just go, Okay. 


Adam Harris 33:25 

Going on, you know, where do I need to allow my mind and my body and my soul to kind of go, you know, what’s working, what’s not working, and just allow things to just kind of like, you know, it’s almost like a bit of a snow globe, and things just begin to kind of settle and, you know, it’s amazing. I was working with the CEO about a year ago, and I was like, Look, you know, this is what we’re going to do, you know, we’re going to just sit down and I’m going to give you the time and space. Oh, my God, Adam, come on. I need you to be asking me loads of questions, etc, etc. Like, there we go. I’ll be back in an hour. 


Adam Harris 34:00 

And, like, and he was, he was sharing with me. He was like, you know, I was trying to fight it, he says, and I got her to about 35 minutes, and then I just dropped in, and he goes, that was the best 25 minutes I’ve had in the last six months. I’m like, all you, all I, all I did was create the space, or gave you, know, gave you the permission, and now you just need to do it for you. Do it for yourself. We don’t do enough of, I think, you know. 


Adam Harris 34:30 

We, you know, the we were talking just before, I think it was before we started recording about the aspect. Well, you the aspects are now 32 so it used to be, you know, seven. Now, because of all the distractions, it’s kind of kind of 32 why? Why are we keeping ourselves so full? Why are we doing instead of, kind of just like, you know, being and, you know, this aspect around kind of, you know, people talk about meditation. Meditation is very for you, is going to be potentially different to me. 


Adam Harris 35:00 

And it doesn’t actually make any difference what it is. It’s like, what’s the thing or the activity or the space that you need that’s going to allow you to just be in a different state of mind that might be walking, might be running, cycling, absolutely, it’s kind of almost irrelevant. But knowing and understanding for for self, especially as as leaders, that’s where the gains then begin to come is because you’re able to just kind of go, you know? And I heard this thing about six months ago called, What’s the activity from an opposites perspective? I was like, Okay, well, what does, what does that mean? And the kind of concept is, is that, if you’re, if you’re out there and you’re doing, you know, you know we’re talking about in EOS, about, you know, doing what you love with people that you love, being compensated accordingly, making time for other pursuits. And a huge difference, you know, we get into a state of flow, which is great, but what’s the thing which is opposite to your natural style, which actually you need to, kind of, you know, circuit break your thinking. So the clarity break is, is one from, you know, from a time of thinking perspective.  


Adam Harris 36:07 

But also the, the other thing then, is that, what’s the opposite, which is going to put you in a little in stress and in pressure, that’s going to actually allow you, allow the the growth, that’s going to allow it to kind of, kind of seems so for me doing improv, right? 


Adam Harris 36:23 

I’m actually, I don’t like necessarily labels, but I prefer being on my own, in my own, my own space. When I’m on stage performing improv, I’ve got a paying audience. I’m not doing it for them. I’m doing it for myself, but I’m right on the edge of my comfort zone, because, like, I’m uncomfortable. Where’s the learning and the growth that’s coming from this that feeds me to then take everything back into the kind of the day today? So what’s your opposite? What? What do you do? Because you like, you love being with people. You love being in front of people. What’s the thing that allows you to kind of just do and think differently?  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 36:57 

Yeah, so for me, it is definitely cycling is one of the things, because even though you have to have a little bit of concentration about, you know, crashing the cars and know, crashing the cars and stuff like that, but generally, cycling throughout nature, I’m not able to be distracted by anybody or anything, which means I have to actually sit with my own thoughts, which is something you don’t do when you’re always surrounded by other people, always looking at what they need and what you how you can help them, and then Also, so Steve and I often go away to places where we deliberately pick a place where it’s away from people, away from Wi Fi, away from technology, just to sort of spend time in nature. Because I enjoy being in nature. Photography is another thing that I do that actually really takes my mind away from everything else that I do. So yes, that’s what I try to do, just just on that then.  


Adam Harris 37:40 

So when you’re when you go to those places where there’s no Wi Fi and you’re out in nature, how long does it take you to kind of just drop into being into a different state?  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 37:49  

Oh, it takes a while. I’m being really honest. It’s not sort of like a quick switch off thing. And there’s, you know, a lot of these things have become habits for us, right? So checking your phone regularly, I don’t know, just worrying about what’s going on. So I also play games. So we actually play games to get out of the the normal routine, if you like, because then that’s putting my mind. I still have to use my mind to play the game. And I’m very competitive, so I want to win, but it’s a different type of thinking, as opposed to thinking about business, thinking about what I normally do, favorite game, favorite game. So we actually got introduced to a new one while we’re away. Last time I’m trying to it’s called, oh, it’s something. It’s a Portuguese game about tiles cover. It’s called, but it was amazing. It’s a real strategic game that looks really simple until you actually start playing it, and then you realize there’s a whole lot more thinking that goes underneath it. I think it’s called a zoo or something like that, which is quite good. And then we like jigsaw puzzles, yeah. So I used to, I used to fight doing jigsaw puzzles because my mom used to do them. I thought was really geeky. And I always thought jigsaw puzzles of people who are just are really dull and can’t do anything else. And then I started to realize that lots of people that I know did jigsaw puzzles, and so suddenly became acceptable in my mind to do that. And now I really enjoy jigsaw puzzles. 


Adam Harris 38:57 

How many you know? What’s the maximum number of pieces you kind of got?  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 39:02   

Oh, we did 1000 1000 pieces, just because we’ve actually got, we live in a very tiny home, so we have a a jigsaw board that we can fold up and put away when we’re not using it, and it will hold 1000 pieces. That’s it. So just got a recent one we just ordered about to arrive, hopefully soon. Friend of ours is very much into Astro photography. He managed to grab a beautiful shot out at her newer fours when we had the the lights that what was it called the I just recently the Aurora. Yeah, so he’s got the Aurora over hanua falls with all the stars in the background. Beautiful picture. So it’s gonna be a pain in the afternoon. Imagine lots of red and orange and lots of stars. But not quite sure.  


Adam Harris 39:37   

Did you? Did you see the aurora?  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 39:38 

I didn’t. I missed it. 


Adam Harris 39:40 

Right? I know because I went out, I went outside, yeah, and I’m looking at and it’s like, it just seemed a different shade of black, very, very substantially for me. Yeah, and Naomi and the kids are going, oh my god, can you see it? I’m like, What am I looking at?  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 39:52  

Yeah, I know we didn’t see it at all, because we actually live right in the heart of the city, so there was no chance of actually seeing that going out somewhere. Yeah, and, to be honest, wasn’t aware of it until after I saw the things on Facebook, people kind of going look at the Aurora. Oh, okay.  


Adam Harris 40:04  

I love seeing those beams of people just coming out. Oh, here’s me with the Aurora.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 40:10  

Just good.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 40:11 

So we go back to clarity breaks. One of the things that I always use to describe it, I think this is really important, because I had, I had a client who fought clarity breaks for two years, would not do it. Didn’t need to. No way am I going to do that. Don’t see any value. And the way I kind of describe it is, you know, if you’ve got a glass that has got some sand in the bottom of it, if you’re always moving, which we often are, and fighting fires and doing all the stuff that goes on, if you’re always moving that that sand is always up in the water, and the water becomes very cloudy as soon as you put the glass down, allow it to settle, the sand settles to the bottom, and then suddenly you have that clarity of the water. You can see what’s really going on. So after two years of fighting it, she finally went ahead and she took herself to a beach, took us up with a pad, no technology, sat on the beach. The beaches is from the corner from her home, and since then, she has become an absolute advocate of it. She I didn’t, couldn’t believe that something as simple as sitting still with nothing going on and just taking a pad and pen could have such a major impact.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 41:03 

She came back from that session she had rethought what people move she had to make in the business, where they were headed, why they had got the direction wrong in terms of the future growth, and just got all this stuff out of her head onto a piece of paper. Now she does them every single month.  


Adam Harris 41:20  

I often when I speaking to people that I find that a lot of the feedback is around getting in touch with their intuition. So, you know, depends, you know.  But for most people, I found that their intuition is really, really strong, but they get busied with other stuff, and clarity break allows them to just, kind of, it’s almost like the axis Monday just becomes a lot more scent, and then it’s like, Oh, I know you always knew what you needed to do. It’s just now that you’ve got that time and that space, like you say, kind of, for this kind of sand, to just kind of settle and go, I know exactly what I need to do.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 41:55  

I actually remember we did the mastermind program last year for smaller businesses that were looking to do EOS. I had been talking about that and talking about that and talking about that for a long, long, long, long time. And then one day, I decided to go take a clarity about we went away to one of these places we go to. There’s no Wi Fi. I sat there for a couple of hours, and I was actually, I was reading a book, which was wife, one of our fellow EOS implementers. And then I go away, and I’d sit with a piece of paper for an hour, then I’d read a bit more the book. I’d go, I sit right for that hour, and literally within a couple within a couple of hours, I had completely planned out the entire mastermind program. I knew exactly what the six modules were, what we were going to cover, everything ready to go, came back, briefed the VA to get the website up and running, and we launched it a week later. Now that is, that’s the power of a clarity break. It’s not I didn’t know what I wanted to do, but I just never, ever had the chance to sit down and get it out of my head. 


Adam Harris 42:46 

So what’s your favorite tool?  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 42:47 

My favorite tool? So I’ve got a new one at the moment. So I always say level 10 meetings. I love level 10 meetings. I think they really are a game changer, but a getting what you want tool. Since we Because don’t forget, as EOS implementers, we also have our quarterlies. We also have our ongoing development every quarterly that we do with Eos, we always deep dive into a tool, and we deep dive into getting what you want tool. And I had seen it many, many times in our toolbox, and kind of knew what it was there for, but didn’t really fully appreciate the power of that simple tool. I mean, it’s a really stupid, simple tool that sort of says, Hey, start with you know what the end in mind. What is it you actually really, really want. And then just work backwards and put the steps in beforehand to work out what needs to be done to get to that end point. And when you start using that, you start to get your scorecard and your measures out of it. You start to get your process out of it, like this. One tool basically does everything, almost that you need to do with an EOS. It can help you set your rocks, your scorecard, your Yeah, looking at your process, everything can be done from that very that very, very simple tool. So I’m finding I’m using it a lot more with clients now, particularly when they say, Oh, we don’t know what to measure, or oh, we can’t Oh, process. I mean, I know we’ve got the three step process document, and that is, in itself, is a powerful tool, but in combining it with getting what you want, it just gets people thinking about everything. Is actually a process, right?  


Adam Harris 44:01 

Yeah. It kind of reminds me of our thoughts are only our thoughts, unless they’re verbalized or written down. So it kind of goes back to that aspect, you know, we spoke about before, in the fact that if it’s here in front of you now, you know how to deal with it, yep. And something in the in the future is a bit of a blur, and it kind of, it bridges the gap between those, yeah. And, you know, start with the end of mine, Stephen Covey, and go back, go back, go back, and then, like you say, it’s almost like those light bulb moments, which is, like, ah. 


Debra Chantry-Taylor 44:30 

Especially getting your leading indicators. Because I think people kind of go, oh, it’s easy to get to lagging indicators, but what the leading indicators are, just work through what the end thing is, which is your lagging indicator. Now think about all the things that come before that they are leading the negation, but it isn’t so. But I think the great thing is, I tend to have a different favorite tool at different times, depending on where I am in the journey with a client, or I’ve got a lot of clients at the moment who are just starting, so we’re in that focus day, Vision building and the getting what you want tool is really, really helpful for the clients who are later on the journey. 


Debra Chantry-Taylor 45:00 

I really love the merger and acquisition tool. I wish that everybody would actually use that tool before they even think about merging or acquiring another business, because it’s stuff in there that is not the legal side. It’s not the financial viability side. It’s about actually. Is this a fit? Yeah.  


Adam Harris 45:18 

Yeah and one of the things that I also really, really love is, and it goes back to that kind of 32 touch points, but you, you, you revisit a tool in later on in the journey. Like, oh Adam, come on. We’ve done this one before. It’s like, look, just bear with me. Yep, look at it through a different lens. 


Adam Harris 45:37 

Let’s just like, revisit it. And some of those sessions are just like, usually, oh, sorry, Adam, you were right.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 45:45  

It’s like, reading a book, right? I mean, like, we’ve all got favorite books we’ve read more than once. And the first time you’re like, Oh, my God, this book is amazing. And then the second time you read it, and you kind of go, Oh, I missed that first time around. There’s something else in there. And the third time, because some of our books I’ve read five, six times, yeah, prosperous coach were my favorites. It just, you know, every time you read it, you’re coming from a different place because of the experience that you now have, the stuff that you’ve done in the time being. And so then you’re seeing different things in it, and add the tools are the same. You know, you get so used to using them, but or you you’ve done them once, and think, Well, that’s it. I’ve done it. But you come back for a second and you get more. 


Adam Harris 46:19 

And it’s like listening to this podcast, like you kind of don’t know necessarily what’s coming? Yep, we don’t, either. We’re just flying by the seat of our fence, yeah. But actually, sometimes you you hear something you’ve heard before, and all of a sudden, you know, you need to, you need to hear it at that moment in time. So you’ve heard it 31 times before, but at this moment, because the way that the kind of everything else is going, it’s kind of almost like, you know, the dials all kind of, you know, flipping in together, and all of a sudden the code is just there, and somebody says something. You go, I already know that, but now’s exactly the right point that I need to hear it, because now I’m in the right space that I can execute it. 


Adam Harris 46:57 

That’s, you know, and I think that’s the kind of the, you know, the teacher and the educator in me is that those moments are like, just, they’re just golden, yeah? And often, I think we make the assumption that people are on the same path and the same journey as us. So, you know, you’re, you’re sat with a with a group of people, and it’s like, Why? Why these? Why? Why people just not getting it and understand it? But yeah, because they’re in a different space. Yeah, I kind of like, you know, this again, this is similar to, kind of, you know, what’s the right time to kind of roll it out to, you know, leadership teams, not leadership team level down is, I kind of use the analogy of the, you know, when there’s a divorce, one party is just has been spending a lot of time thinking about it, and they’ve gone through, you know, they’ve gone through the pain and the grief cycle, and they get to the point that say, Hey, Debra, just need to let you know it’s done, right? So at that point, I’ve already, you know, I’m now in kind of, you know, recovery mode, and I’m kind of come up, and you’ve literally, I’ve just dropped the bombshell on you, you know, you’re a completely different part. And this is the reason why, you know, there’s so many, there’s so much tension and disagreement, but, yeah, but you just don’t understand. You know, we’re finished. What do you mean? We fit like and I think we often need to be really mindful and aware of where other people are, people are at.  


Adam Harris 48:15 

Don’t think about it from our own perspective, where think about it from the person or the people that were with and going right. If I put myself in their shoes, like there’s an aspect around radical empathy, where you you don’t just think, but you almost kind of embody and go right, okay, so if I was Debra in this moment in time with the situation and the circumstances and the lack of knowledge and the lack of awareness, what’s going to be going on for her at that moment in time? Right? Literally, transpose my book, you know, my mind into her. Okay, now I can begin to start understanding that she doesn’t have she she doesn’t have the knowledge and the understanding that I’ve got. She hasn’t got the experience and, you know, the the aspects of working with an implementer, right? So what do I need to do to be able to support and guide through that?  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 49:00 

Yeah, I was brought home to me yesterday. I was working with a team where at the end of the session, and it was, you know, it’s an hour session, and at the end of the session, they said they were all very exhausted and overwhelmed. I thought was quite an easy session for me, but then I’d forget that, you know, I do it day in, day out, and so the difficult questions that I ask just come naturally. And of course, are there on the other receiving end of that? So they’re actually having to really, potentially do things they’ve never done before.  


Adam Harris 49:25 

Yeah, and correct me if I’m wrong. But also the you’re there, from a process perspective, the emotiveness of the conversations you’re not necessarily involved because you’re not involved in the on the day today. So the the burden that you’re carrying is very, very different to what they’re going through.  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 49:45 

Yeah, yeah. So anyway, hey, we’re probably out of time for this particular podcast, but I have enjoyed it so much. I think we should lose more regularly. I think we should, I think we should lose at least once a month. So I’m just on the fly saying we’re now going to start doing these once a month. So once a month, you’re going to get the benefit of listening to Adam and I just talk. Make it up and do and share the stuff that we’re doing.  


Adam Harris 50:02 

But isn’t that what life’s all about?  


Debra Chantry-Taylor 50:03 

That is exactly what life is all about. So I hope that you’ve all enjoyed this. It’s been really great having it on the show. Thank you so much, and we will see you again in a month. Bye for now. Thank you. 



Debra Chantry-Taylor 

Certified EOS Implementer | Entrepreneurial Leadership & Business Coach | Business Owner

#betterbusinessbetterlife #entrepreneur #leadership #eosimplementer #professionaleosimplementer #entrepreneurialbusinesscoach

Certified EOS Implementer New Zealand

Certified EOS Implementer  Australia

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Certified EOS Implementer NZ

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