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Navigating EOS for Business Success | Adam Harris | Ep 175

Top tips from Adam Harris.

1. Commitment and Consistency:

“Commit, commit, and have the consistency. I think that’s the first thing. The second thing is, is that it, like you said, it’s a journey, and there’s going to be times when it’s going to be tough, and the easy thing to do is to just go blaming the system, blaming EOS. And, you know, actually, that’s the worst thing that you can possibly do. And you know, when you get to that point is that it’s probably you reflect on some of the other things that you’ve started and not necessarily finished. I know that I’m guilty of not being a complete finisher, right? But, but I think it’s really, really important, is that. If you’re going to do this, you really got to kind of, you know, kind of commit.”

2. Understand the Proven Process:

“And that external objectivity is really, really important, is that, you know, you know, a self implementing company might well go, oh, you know, we’ve only hit one of our seven rocks. Oh, well. And everybody’s like, Oh. And then it’s like, Okay, guys, how. On a second, let’s just take a step back to what actually, you know, it’s a learning point. What? What can we take from this and knowing, understanding the journey, because we’ve been through it many times with any other organization, we’ve got that experience and that ability to benchmark and kind of put the arm around the shoulder and go, actually, you know what you actually do them back then you think, really, why? Because we can tell you, because we’ve got the experience.”

3. Have the Right Conversations:

“My expectation of today is that I’m going to ask one question, where I’m going to make each of you feel uncomfortable, and I’m doing that from a position of care, because if I’m not asking the question, then none of you are going to be asking the question. And that’s, that’s where, that’s where the the marginal gains then come. Because, you know, like any coach, you know when to push, and you then know when to kind of support, you know. And that external objectivity is really, really important, is that, you know, you know, a self implementing company might well go, oh, you know, we’ve only hit one of our seven rocks. Oh, well. And everybody’s like, Oh. And then it’s like, Okay, guys, how. On a second, let’s just take a step back to what actually, you know, it’s a learning point.”





eos, implementing, implementer, business, entrepreneur, level, challenge, consistency, tools, team, read, conversation, meeting, important, traction, work, feel, run, observed, entrepreneurial

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:22

Welcome to another episode of Better Business, Better Life. I’m your host, Debra Chantry Taylor, and I’m passionate about helping entrepreneurs lead their ideal lives by creating better businesses. I’m a certified EOS implementer and FBA credited family business advisor and a business owner. Myself, with several business interests, I work with established business owners and their leadership teams to help them live their ideal entrepreneurial life using Eos, the Entrepreneurial Operating System. My guests come onto the show to authentically share the highs and lows of creating a successful business and how they turn things around in their business using EOS tools and traction. Some of them have even become EOS implementers themselves. Today’s guest is a butcher, a baker and a candlestick maker, and is also a good friend of mine and a colleague as an EOS implementer. We are going to talk about all things EOS. So please welcome Adam Harris, who is the founder of Frank and fearless. He’s also professional EOS implementer, and he is managing director of a New Plymouth based it firm. Welcome to the show, Adam.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:36

Hey. Good morning, Adam, great to have you back in the studio again. I know it seems, uh, it doesn’t seem long since, honestly.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:42

So if you remember, for those of you who listen to the show regularly, we actually had Adam in a little while ago, and we said this would be a really great thing to do regularly. So we’re back again, and this time we’re gonna be talking about self implementation of Eos. I’ve just realized I’m wearing the same jumper as well.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:56

Do you never change?


Adam Harris  01:59

So yeah, so self implementing. So let’s start by, why should a company use or implement EOS? For starters?


Debra Chantry-Taylor  02:07

Great start. Yeah. Okay. What do you think?


Adam Harris  02:10

Well, I think the you know, and I realized this when I was running businesses earlier in in my career, is you know, when you know and understand what you do with regards to the business, trying to find something that just allows you to take away the hassle and the pressure of just, you know, running the business inverted commas, picking a system, I think, is vitally important, because then it just allows you to focus on follower proper, and then allows you to then work on, you know, the the area, The vertical or the business that that you’re in. For me, personally, I’ve seen and looked at loads of different systems over the years. I fell in love with EOS about eight years ago. For me, the two things were a, simplicity and B, the ability to be able to cascade through an organization that’s actually really good. Yeah,


Debra Chantry-Taylor  03:01

I think, I mean, as you know, I came across EOS four and a half years ago now, and for me, it was like, actually, yes, you have to have an operating system. We always work the three legs of the stool, right? Three legs are you need to have, and they should all be equal. And you need to have an operating system. You need to have a coach, you’d have a peer group. And if you get those three things, your business will just reach completely new heights. And what I loved about EOS when they launched into New Zealand using my event center, what I saw was that the stuff that they do, none of it’s rocket science, none of it’s new, none of it, but it is simple, and also it just puts a framework around the stuff we kind of do intuitively, but gives you something to pin things onto. And whenever I have to describe it, I find it running hard, but I think what it is, it’s a simple set of pragmatic and practical tools that helps you manage your people in your organization.


Adam Harris  03:48

And think the aspect, for me is the consistency as well. I think often I’ve observed in the past, you get somebody and it doesn’t necessarily have to be the visionary or the integrator. We might we’ll come on to that later, but there’s one person who’s kind of flying the flag and go, this is the way we need to do it. Yeah, I think one of the great things about EOS is, is that it then becomes the whole team, and then later on, you cascade it, then through the whole of the organization. So you’ve got consistency of meetings, you’ve got consistency of language, and then actually that means that you’ve got consistency of behavior, which then drives the outcome for the business. Yeah, that’s absolutely true.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  04:24

I’ll tell you what we just realized. So we should actually say, what is EOS? What? Well, I don’t what is EOS? What does EOS stand for?


Adam Harris  04:31

I should say it stands for Entrepreneurial Operating System, yep, but I would say it’s a simple and effective set of tools and processes that allow you to get what you to get what you want from your entrepreneurial business.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  04:43

You’ve been reading the manual. That’s awesome. I actually struggle sometimes to explain it, but I think once we get into some of the detail of it, it makes perfect sense. So okay, so we now know what it is, why a business should potentially do it. And you know, I remember when I first started being an EOS implementer, I used to get really annoyed with some. Self implemented as I felt like they were missing out on something. I felt like they weren’t really getting the best thing from it. What I’ve actually realized is I’d much rather somebody self implementation that did nothing, because actually putting a system into your business will make a difference, no matter how you do it. And so self implementation is still a step in the right direction. So what? What is self implementation?


Adam Harris  05:18

Well, so I think for me, there’s a step that goes before that, right? Which is, in order to grow the business, actually, I think there’s an aspect that you have to grow yourself. So when you spoke earlier about kind of the three legs to the stall, yeah, things are really important. Piece there is that EOS and or anything else not going to be right for everybody. You kind of have to make a commitment in saying it. You know, what’s got us here isn’t necessarily work. That’s what’s going to get us to the next point. So where, what and how do we need to do things differently. That’s going to challenge our assumptions. That’s going to allow us to kind of think differently. And this is when you start surrounding, you know, going to events, hearing speakers. You know, some of the events that we run, you know, it might not be the right time, but sometimes you gotta understand that you the right person which is willing to, you know, in theory, kind of get out your own way. Because, as we know, you know, whether you go down the self implementation or whether you get an implementer, it’s going to be challenging. You’re going to have to be think and feel differently. You’re going to have to challenge some of your assumptions. You’re gonna have to look at your own ego. And I just observed that some people are just not ready for that. I think once you then get to the stage of being ready, in answer to your question, self implementation is looking at taking first and foremost traction, then looking at the whole kind of Eos, plethora of tools that are available, and going, we’re going to do this ourselves. You know, we’re gonna, we’re gonna have the meetings, we’re gonna have the conversations, we’re gonna facilitate and get to the stage where we’re gonna be able to do, do it ourselves. That’s my thoughts. Your you’re absolutely right.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  06:51

I think it’s what generally tends to happen. Somebody reads the traction book and they go, this is brilliant, and they want to implement it. And so they do. They start looking at those tools and implementing the tools themselves. They do it a little bit differently the way that we do, which is really interesting. That was quite fascinating, because what tends to happen is people read the traction book. You go, I love the video. The video is amazing when you have a two page plan, and that’s what they tend to focus on in the beginning. So what is that plan? Which, to me, is not the most powerful part of traction at all. It’s just one of the small tools, the most powerful part for traction or Eos, for me, is actually the level 10 meetings. So I think that, yeah, input supplementation means that you start to put those things in. It’s just you might do in a slightly different order or different way than you would do if you’re doing with an implementer.


Adam Harris  07:33

And do you, do you think there’s a right and a wrong way? I mean, obviously, when somebody’s working with like you or I, yeah, a proven process to go through. If somebody’s listening to this and going, Okay, I’m going to self implement where would you recommend that they start?


Debra Chantry-Taylor  07:46

So I think the thing that I that I the reason I fell in love with at EOS was, like, I said nothing about it is actually new. You look at and kind of this is just common sense. It really is quite common sense. But what I loved about it was the actual proven process. So that’s what she sold me to become an EOS implementer. Because I’d worked with the isas for seven years. I’ve been doing strategy planning sessions with teams, you know, big teams, small teams, startups, for many, many, many years. And we’d go into a room as a whole leadership team. We do this whole, you know, what’s our vision, what’s our mission, what are our core values? Where are we headed? What are we doing? And we’d all leave very revved up, very excited about going back into the world to do this new plan. But then when they went back into the business, nothing had changed. And so as a consequence, we went back to fighting fires, back to all the stuff that happens, getting really caught up in the day to day things. And that vision and that plan suddenly disappeared. And it started disappearing and disappear until eventually it was non existent. And so that never actually really got implemented. And what I realized was that with Eos, the way that we do it is we actually go, let’s think about the practical, pragmatic tools, or make a difference to the way we run our business, day in, day out from day one. And let’s do that first, and then we can come back and visit the plan. Because once we’ve changed the way the business is run, we’re going to have the capacity, the brain power, the clarity and the consistency that you mentioned to actually start implementing on a vision and a plan


Adam Harris  09:05

So I’m going to challenge you. Yeah, so you said earlier that EOS is simple and it’s kind of common basic knowledge. I think it is, if you’ve got the right headspace, right so I think if you are, you know, so down into the detail and the depths of the business is that actually you haven’t got that clarity thinking and thought. So you’re not necessarily able to kind of, you know, look at things and kind of go, oh, okay, actually, this is common sense. I think it’s only when you have that ability to be able to kind of take a step back that actually you then realize that it that it is. And if I would, I would say or suggest that if somebody’s kind of reading traction or beginning to look at it, they’re kind of like, actually, this might just be a bit too much. I don’t think they’re ready.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  09:51

Fair enough. Yeah, yeah. I have to say also. And again, this is maybe sharing being really fun. Well, I find traction a very difficult book to read. I agree. Yeah. I actually. Think that it’s not a it’s a great book. And I mean, the work that Junior has done is amazing, yeah, but it’s actually a really tough book to it’s been like, Good to Great. When I first read Good to Great, when I was actually working in corporate world, we were forced to read it. I hated every moment of it, and I really struggled to read it. And I think it’s because it’s very, very high brow. It’s very much based on research. It just didn’t, sort of didn’t have any relevance for me at that point in my life, traction is not the same as good to go, but it’s a similar thing. It is very much. It is a detailed how to book to implement the EOS system. But it’s It’s dry, it’s quite dry, yeah.


Adam Harris  10:33

And I think this, for me, then, is understanding what your method of learning is. So I think some people are listening to this podcast, and other people prefer video, other people prefer reading, other people prefer experiential learning, and they love to be in a room. So you know, if you’re listening to this, what’s your preferred method? For starters, how are you going to gain that information and the challenge that’s going to allow you to kind of think and feel, feel differently and actually lean into one or two of them that aren’t your natural style. So take yourself along to you know, we run, we run events. I mean, it always fascinates me why we shouldn’t be getting twice as many people wrong events, because there’s a huge amount of knowledge in the room. But actually, what I always love is the conversations that happen in between. You’re sitting next to somebody, and you’ve got somebody that’s in a completely different sector or business, and as you you’re listening to them, you just pick up on something and go. That’s the golden nugget that I needed to hear at this moment in time for me to take in, back into into my business,


Debra Chantry-Taylor  11:37

which is the peer group leg of the stool, right? Having those conversations with peers. There’s actually a formal peer group, but having interaction with peers is really important, and it helps the learning.


Adam Harris  11:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe this is a conversation for another podcast. But you know, the the coaches and the and the peer groups and the mastermind groups, let’s save that from for another pocket, because I think, think that dynamic of challenge and learning is so, so important to be able to think and feel differently. Because, you know, like I say, that’s where the gains are going to come from. If you speak to people that are within your industry, they’re going to have the same issues, challenges and problems or opportunities, but they’re all going to be looking at it from the same perspective. When you can get that wider peripheral vision. That’s where, you know, somebody says something, and it just completely blows your mind. Tangent, tangent. Alert.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  12:26

So back to we were talking about, you know, people have picked up the traction book if they haven’t found it difficult to read. By the way, if you do find it difficult to read, the one that I would recommend having a good look at is, I think the EOS life is a beautiful, easy to read book that actually really helps you get a sense of what, what living, the ideal entrepreneurial life looks like. But it introduces the concepts of of Eos as well. And then get a grip is a nice business fable. So I actually end up reading Get a grip completely fell in love with it, and then I went back and read traction, and suddenly found it was a lot easier to read it because it is a how to manual as opposed to a story, yeah.


Adam Harris  13:02

And for me, it was EOS live, that was the one that kind of, like put really pushed it. For me, Yeah, feels I need to ask the question is, what’s an entrepreneur?


Debra Chantry-Taylor  13:10

Don’t get me started on this. It’s a whole other podcast. It’s a whole different book.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  13:15

We’re having a conversation, actually, just recently, with Richard Lou Who runs that and said entrepreneur. And it was the first question I asked him when he came into the session room. It’s like, so what do you like, so what do you think as an entrepreneur? Because I think in New Zealand, it’s used for startup tech founders. That’s what it feels like it’s used for. But, I mean, I think an entrepreneur, it’s anybody who is prepared to risk their own sort of personal assets, to change. Make a difference in the world. Make a change, you know, make a change. Make a difference, which is part of that EOS life is like, you know, making a huge difference in the world. And for some people that that is, you know, running a business. For some people, it’s a tech startup. For, you know, it’s different things for different people, but it’s people who are actually prepared to take a risk, to try to make a difference.


Adam Harris  13:55

What a great summary. But I just, I just felt it was important, because there’ll be people that will be listening to this and go, you know, I don’t know. I don’t know whether I should class myself as an entrepreneur and and language is important, yeah,


Debra Chantry-Taylor  14:07

but you think about it when you work with the Ronald McDonald House team, right? And, I mean, that’s not a traditional private entrepreneurial business, but they’re all entrepreneurs as well, because they are making a difference. They are actually trying to change the way things are done. You know, a tech startup is an entrepreneur. They’re trying to change the way things are done. But so is somebody who runs up, we’re talking about, you know, Tony Falkenstein last night, who is a very long time friend of mine. And, I mean, he has a massive business, just water group. And, you know, for for the the tech startup entrepreneur definition, he certainly wouldn’t fit that at all, because he does water, he does solar lighting systems, and he does something else, supplements and things. So none of that is tech and but he’s an entrepreneur through and through. I mean, he has been growing his business for years and years and years, and he makes a massive difference to the economy of New Zealand.


Adam Harris  14:56

Growth Mindset, wanting to do better for. Self and and others. And, you know, think that for me, what I’ve identified with people that use Eos, self implementing, or it using what, you know, somebody like us, is that, actually, that that mindset is really, really key, yeah, but actually, there’s this thing around, you know, higher, higher purpose, you know, Simon simmick would call it the Golden Circle, is that actually they want to do and leave the world in a better space than than they’re finding it. And, like you say, whether that be a charity or a not for profit, or, you know, you know, an inverted commas, entrepreneurially owned business. It what’s the framework and the methodology that’s actually going to allow us to grow faster and quicker and bring everybody on the journey. That’s what I feel is great about Eos, yeah,


Debra Chantry-Taylor  15:46

and I think, you know the title that you know, the hint is in the title, the entrepreneurial part of it, the of Eos, is that it is a framework. It’s not designed to be corporate. It’s not designed to bring in levels of hierarchy. It’s not designed to over complicate things. It’s designed to harness that entrepreneurial spirit with a bit of a framework around and discipline. I mean, Jim Collins is quite one of my favorites, right? You know, if you combine a spirit of entrepreneurism with a discipline of accountability, you’re thinking, Yeah, you get magic. And that’s what it is. It’s actually, we’re not saying we don’t want to take away the entrepreneurial spirit, the bit that always challenges and wants to change the world, but we just need to put some discipline consistency around it, so we create absolute magic.


Adam Harris  16:25

So let’s go back to the the aspects of so you’ve you’ve read one of the books, or you you consume some content, you’ve decided that you’re going to implement Eos, and you’ve decided that you’re going to do it yourself. What’s the two or three things that you’d recommend that organizations or people should do, and the two or three things that you recommend that they shouldn’t do, okay if they’re self implemented? Sure.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  16:47

So the first thing is, and I think you’ve mentioned this in a previous podcast, EOS worldwide provides content for Africa like they give away everything. So the first thing I would do is go to the EOS worldwide site, go to, hopefully, one of the other Adam on my own sort of site, microsites, and download the tools. That way you will get all of the tools that they’ve actually got. They’ve also got a whole bunch of ebooks. Decide the ebook is a great way to get started, even download, you know, a chapter of traction if you haven’t actually read it yet, and see whether it feels right for you. So get the tools. First of all, that’s one of the first things. The second thing is, all entrepreneurs want to go fast, and I would highly recommend that this is a journey, and it takes some time, so it’s not like you read the book and you go, right, we’re going to implement the US now, and that means everything’s going to change, and the whole organization is going to suddenly adopt it. What will happen if you do that is the rest of the team will go, here we go again. Yet another bright idea. Yeah, you will not get the people behind you, and so slow down in order to go faster. So you need to start introducing one tool at a time, getting the people on board, bringing them on the journey with you. And the third thing is, which I think a lot of self employments miss out on, is that it is not about the owner doing all the stuff. So it’s not about the owner going, I’m going to write a video, I’m going to implement level 10 minutes. I’m going to set the rocks, I’m going to set the scorecard. It has to be a team effort. And so if you try to do it with you still being your usual entrepreneurial dominant This is why we’re going to do itself. Then you’re you’re not going to get any of the buyer and you’re not going to get the results that you want. And in fact, it can almost have a detrimental effect rather than a positive effect. So that’s my three things you should do. And I suppose the don’t do is, yeah, don’t try and do it on your own, as in, you need to bring the team on board with you. Don’t try and go really fast, and don’t get discouraged, because it is, it is a journey. It’s like, it’s not gonna Rachel Hunter, it won’t happen overnight, but it will happen. So it is a journey, and it is gonna take some time, and it’s gonna challenge a lot of the way that you do things. So don’t get discouraged if you feel like you’re not getting there immediately. Consistency is key.


Adam Harris  18:55

So as you were talking now, I was thinking that you might ask me what my three are, yeah, well,


Debra Chantry-Taylor  18:58

I am going to the course. Well actually I wasn’t going to but no.


Adam Harris  19:04

So I think consistency, you mentioned it, I think is really, really important. I think the aspect of, you know, especially when you get into the level 10 meetings, you know, the meeting that you feel that you don’t want to have because it’s easier, you know, somebody else is booked out the meeting room, or something else going on is like, you know, commit, commit, and have the consistency. I think that’s the that’s the first thing. The second thing is, is that it, like you said, it’s a journey, and there’s going to be times when it’s going to be tough, and the easy thing to do is to just go blaming the system, blaming EOS. And, you know, actually, that’s the worst thing that you can possibly do. And you know, when you get to that point is that it’s probably you reflect on some of the other things that you’ve started and not necessarily finished. I know that I’m guilty of not being a complete finisher, right? But, but I think it’s really, really important, is that. If you’re going to do this, you really got to kind of, you know, kind of commit. And then I think the the third thing is that is just being kind of honest with each other. I mean, one of the things that I think is often the case, especially with kind of within business, is that we’re not having the right conversations a lot of the time. Yeah, and you know, when, done properly, EOS actually creates the right the space and the environment to have the conversations in the right place at the right time with the right people, as opposed to those sidebar conversations. And, you know, the the silo mentality. So yeah, those are the three things that I would be recommending.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  20:39

I think that’s really good, yeah. And I suppose it now kind of naturally leads on to so why? Why would you do it on your own versus doing it with somebody? And you and I have both had the opportunity now to work with several businesses that have self implemented. Some of them literally only a couple of months. They brought me on board. I’ve got one who was doing it for two years. Well, they brought me on board. I’ve got one that was doing it for seven years. Seven years, I’ve always beat yen. It’s good. It’s good. So, yeah, so you know, why would you I see that? I think the shorter one I can kind of go, you know, do it for two months. You may feel like you’re not getting the results. And so that’s an easy kind of but for people who are doing it for a long period of time, it might go, why would I ever bother getting an implementary? So


Adam Harris  21:16

I think there’s a number of different things. I think the first one is financially. So are you in a situation where you know, spending the money, money, financially, committing through to working with somebody is a is a challenge. This is a value exchange of when you’re working with a with somebody like you and I, okay? And it’s positioned that way to make sure that there’s a commitment financially, but also, actually there’s a commitment of time. And I think I you know, what I’ve observed is, yes, there’s the the financial piece, but actually the second piece is, Are we all in? Are we going to commit lock, stock and barrel and going, this is what we’re going to commit to for a period of time, because this is what we believe is going to allow us to take to that that take us to that next level. And I think sometimes individuals and teams are not at the right not at the right point. One, financially, B, they’re dipping their toe in the water. And the third thing is, and I’ve observed this quite a few times, is that actually there’s the few people and sometimes the visionary or the integrator, where it’s like they don’t actually want to be challenged. They don’t want to be held accountable, and the easier thing to do is to either a do nothing or B self implement. So that that level of commitment is a real it’s a real challenge. And, you know, I kind of almost love it. You know, if people are listening to this and they haven’t had a 90 minute meeting with either you or I or somebody else, so that’s one of the things we say as an implementer that you kind of got three choices. You either don’t do anything, yep, you do it yourself, or be that you work with somebody like like you. And I that that level of commitment, sometimes I’ve observed that it’s the right organization. It’s just not the right the right time. So if you’re listening to this and you have been self implementing. The question I was saying is, what needs to happen for you to be in a situation where now’s the right time and be really, really clear, and have clarity in your mind. And that may well be a financial piece. It may well be the you know, that you’ve got to sort out some of the, you know, some of the people issues around the table. You You know, something’s got. But what is it like? Because at least, again, you know, we’ve spoken, spoken that in our previous podcast. Start with the end in mind, if you go at this point, this is when we’re going to need the help to take us to that level. Have the clarity as to what that looked like.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  23:34

I’m going to challenge a little bit of that. Though, sometimes I’ve had people come to me say, look, we’ve been waiting until we get this people issue sorted. Or do we get there actually. Sometimes having some external help can make that a whole lot easier. It gets through that to that clarity much, much more quickly. And it’s one of the things that I think the reason the different I mean, as I say, I love people self implementing I highly encourage it. But if you really do feel like you want to get at the next level, the foot to the accelerator, a bit more on steroids, if you like, they’re bringing in implementer. And I think the reason it works better and more quickly and more efficiently is because we are not involved in the business. We are completely external, and therefore we’re using all of our knowledge from all of the other businesses that we’re working with or have worked with, or to actually ask the right questions. But also, I don’t know about you, how do you actually run a meeting? Be part of that meeting and also be objective and start questioning some of the things in the meeting that’s actually really hard.


Adam Harris  24:27

So my, my, well, that’s a triple schizophrenic. It’s a multi personality disorder. I mean, I’ve been a facilitator for, you know, coaching facilitator for 20 years, and, you know, even for me, who’s got a high skill level, if I’m sat in my own me thing to facilitate and be a member that’s incredibly difficult to take off different hats, because often you’ve got high levels of emotion and you’re hold, you’re either holding on something or you want to let go. And you’ve got, you’ve got a viewer opinion on on either side of the fence, yeah, having somebody that is able to challenge. Challenge and ask the questions that need to be to be asked. So I completely agree with you with regards to kind of the people side, because often what I’ve observed is that those that are self implementing, they’ve chosen, consciously or subconsciously not to fully implement some of the tools, yeah, and and, more often than not, the reason why they’ve they’ve not done it, is a they don’t fully understand at all. And I think there’s a, there’s a piece there, sure, but actually, the second thing is that it means that they need to have difficult conversations. I found the accountability chart is, is often the piece that is massively lacking, yeah, because dealing with people is a real is a real challenge, and especially with, you know, within organizations where there is a, you know, high care and a good culture is if somebody’s not necessarily, you know, we’ve not set the expectations so, and I’m responsible for that potentially. So actually, part of it’s looking in the mirror and go, Well, I’m not the one that’s done, done something. In fact, it’s remind for your conversation I may well have had within the last seven days with my team. And that’s it. It’s really, really, really difficult. So when you have somebody that is coming in, is there to support? You know, the word I often use is carefrontational, which is, I’m I’m gonna ask the challenging questions, because I have a duty of care to do that for you and the organization. This is not personal, yep, and because I’m, you know, not involved in the business, then I can be asking those questions. It’s almost like, you know, throwing, pulling, you know, the pin out of a grenade, throwing it in, but managing the situation and holding the containments in the space respectfully and from a careful perspective, you know that for me, is the biggest, biggest value of working with somebody like you.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  26:48

And I yeah, I mean, I tend to talk about love, and I mean love in the in the sense of, yes, I’m doing it from a place of love, because I know this is for the greater good. And so actually, it’s coming from a loving place. Sure, it’s going to make you actually challenge a few things, but it is for the greater good. And I suppose you know, we do three things in the session room, but probably one of the most important ones that facilitation. And you cannot fully facilitate if you’re trying to participate, trying to take the notes, trying to keep that whole thing together, the objectiveness is a completely different level together. But even that, just that facilitation, if that was the only thing you got out of working with us, that in itself would be gold. Then you’ve got the teaching, which is, you know, we know this stuff. Not only do we know it from our initial training and from using it day in, day out, in our own businesses and using it with our teams, but we’re also, every quarter where we’re deep, diving into tools, we’re learning more and more and more. So we have a grow or die value and philosophy, which means we’re always learning more about those tools and becoming absolute masters in it. So you’ve got the so you’ve got the facilitation, you’ve got the teaching, which is us, we know these things better than anybody else, and then the coaching. And I mean, I always joke, because I said to you, this morning, was it? I went to my personal trainer this morning, and we’ve got a bit of an issue with some of my joints and my muscles, and they said, you know, you need to do more stretching. He said, But if I give you a stretching plan, you won’t do it on your own, will you? And I went, nope. And he knows me so well, I need to have the accountability. So he’s now brought that stretching into my actual personal training, because he knows that’s the only way I will actually get round to doing it. And the coaching part of what we do is, is the accountability, not that we’re going to force you to do anything. I’m certainly never going to hold their hand and and check in on them on a regular basis to make sure they’re doing it, but the fact that they know they’re going to come back in to see us in 90 days time, they’re probably going to go, Need to get my homework done, or really want to, you know, make sure this is done. It’s just an accountability piece, which is personal training.


Adam Harris  28:32

I think that’s part, a large part, of what commitment. So you know you’re committing time, but actually you’re committing financially to kind of go, Hey, Debra, you know, in 90 days time, we will do our best efforts to achieve what it is that we’ve said that we’re going to achieve, because our bodies and our minds will take, often take the path of least resistance. So if there’s nobody that’s holding us to account, then, you know, we’re sitting in the level 10 meetings, and you know, we just dropped by five, 10% and if that then is consistent throughout the whole quarter, is that when we then get to, you know, to the end of the quarter, and we’re sitting around and we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re running our quarterly, it’s like, so who’s asking the challenging questions? You know, and I always go into into a session, and, you know, when we’re talking around, you know, what’s the expectations for today? I always, often say my expectation of today is that I’m going to ask one question, where I’m going to make each of you feel uncomfortable, and I’m doing that from a position of care, because if I’m not asking the question, then none of you are going to be asking the question. And that’s, that’s where, that’s where the the marginal gains then come. Because, you know, like any coach, you know when to push, and you then know when to kind of support, you know. And that external objectivity is really, really important, is that, you know, you know, a self implementing company might well go, oh, you know, we’ve only hit one of our seven rocks. Oh, well. And everybody’s like, Oh. And then it’s like, Okay, guys, how. On a second, let’s just take a step back to what actually, you know, it’s a learning point. What? What can we take from this and knowing, understanding the journey, because we’ve been through it many times with any other organization, we’ve got that experience and that ability to benchmark and kind of put the arm around the shoulder and go, actually, you know what you actually do them back then you think, really, why? Because we can tell you, because we’ve got the experience. Rather than being, you know, the organization beating themselves up because they have no comparable


Debra Chantry-Taylor  30:30

that’s actually really good, true. And as we said in one of the earlier podcasts, as well as I, often people we so we overestimate what we can do in the short term and estimate in the long term. And so often companies who come to work with me, they want to do 11, 2040, goals, projects, rocks for the year, and that’s just not possible. But they haven’t got anybody externally to help understand that. I have one really, really strong client who actually came to me from another coach, and they had 43 goals for the year, and it’s like, you know, that’s not going to happen. You’re actually setting yourself up for failure. So you’re right. The experience that we have can just start to get them what, what’s normal? We provide a level of, you know, this is perfectly normal. Every company hits the ceiling at some point. Every company goes through this. It’s okay.


Adam Harris  31:16

And I think that’s the aspect of the proven process, you know, it’s a proven process that’s been done and implemented within hundreds of 1000s of other other businesses. Why would you know? Why would you not take the advice, the guidance and the support from those that have you know, I’ve trodden the path beforehand. Yes, each business is different, but actually it’s not. And when you look at it, and when you look and you follow the process is that, here’s the proven methodology, if you follow it down to a T, you are guaranteed to get the success. Because it’s not the system that’s gonna and the process that’s gonna fault, fault you. It’s actually the individuals that are trying to take either a shortcuts or B, go, Oh, we don’t need to do that because we’re inverted commas different. I’ve heard that so many times, so many times.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  32:05

Okay, so I’m conscious of time. And you know, this is not about selling us as implementers. It’s really about we believe that every business and every business owner will benefit from having an operating system, a peer group and a coach to help them get, you know, improve themselves, personally and professionally. And as I said right in the beginning, we love people implementing, self implementing, because we’d much rather you did something rather than nothing. So what’s your parting kind of words for people who’ve been listening in Oh, so


Adam Harris  32:31

I think, I think there’s a couple of case studies that I just love to, love to share some of the so I mentioned earlier that I had this client based over in America they’ve been self implementing for seven years. They they actually were doing the two other legs of the stool. So they’d had a coach, and they’d been part of a mastermind group, yep, and they’d been following an operating system, which was great, but they felt that they needed something to then take them to their next level, and decided that this was the right time to to work with an implementer, just the feedback that I had was just knowing that I was not going to let them off on, off the hook, and I was going to follow this the process, you know? And one of the things that we say as a US implementers is that, you know, we’re here to help you follow the process. If you want to deviate, then we’re not going to work with you. Yep, that allowed them to have the discipline. So the times when they were veering off that five to 15% I was like, Guys, come on, let’s I need to pull you back in. You’re going off into Yeah, Adam, no. Pull you back on a tangent. Yep. That, that level of consistency is now, you know, turning the ship. They knew and understood a lot of the basics, but a lot of the kind of the nuances, again, that you wouldn’t necessarily know. Oh, well, what about this? Oh, is that the way that we’re supposed to do it? Uh, yeah. Oh, okay, right. And then just changing those little needles and those little dials all of a sudden, you know, get them kind of all online. Um, the other one I want to talk about is company over in the UK that I bet that I’m working with, they’ve been self implementing for about 18 months, and it was the accountability chart. So they had a leadership team of nine, and it’s like, okay, you know, and I sat in on a number of their kind of L 10 meetings, and just wasn’t, just wasn’t working, yep. And kind of the reiteration of, you know, a visionary integrator, and then kind of the three major functions, sales and marketing, operations and finance. It’s like, what’s the level of the conversation that we’re having around the leadership table? And are we dropping down further to into the region? And what was really interesting was observing the behavior of the visionary is that in those early stages, when I first started working with the team, is that the visionary was allowing himself to drop down to the lowest level of of energy and, you know, and conversation, as soon as that team moved to four, the con. Conversation and the the processing of issues, just went up three or four notches, literally in that first meeting of the team. So I think the point common for me is that sometimes you don’t know what you don’t know, and that’s where you know, working with somebody, you know, I love the phrase Sherpa, so I feel our role. We’re not We’re not there to do the work for them. We’re there to make sure that you know, you know holding the hand. You know, there’s times when we need to lead you and we’re out in front. There’s times that when you know we’re by your side, and there’s times when we’re you know, you know we’re behind you and we’re giving you the support and our you know, our function and our role is to make ourselves redundant, yeah, you know, and that’s where as a Sherpa, we’ve gone. Hey, Debra, you’ve got this. You don’t need me anymore. See you later. Your closing thoughts on this?


Debra Chantry-Taylor  35:51

Well, just thinking that a couple of case I’d share as well. One of them was around a team that, you know, they thought they had got all the EOS tools in place, but when we actually did our first session, well, we kind of uncovered it in the 90 minute meeting, but we realized that they they really hadn’t tackled the accountability chart. It was, it was a little bit too hard, and there was a real reason why it was too hard. And so that was one of the things that we could actually add some real value in. But even then, reviewing the VTO, and this is again, with one of my other clients who’ve been doing it for two years, they had a VTO. So you could tick the box and say they had it, but actually they’d overcomplicate. And one of my real skills is simplifying things down. Because let’s face it, you’ve got this great big long if your why is an entire paragraph, it’s highly unlikely that every the organization can rattle that off. And so it was about really exploring what was underneath all that and what the real kind of why was, and simplifying it down. So we did work on the accountability chart. We did work on the vtos even though they had even though they had these tools. By the time we’d finished that first kind of self implemented day, they suddenly, you know, that they would say, Oh my God, that’s brilliant. It’s like, I just didn’t do anything. It was all there for you. I just helped to bring that down to a very, very simplified version. So that’s that’s the stuff that I love about working with self implements. Not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Nothing wrong with what you’ve done. We’re going to fine tune it. We’re going to tweak it, as you said, move each of those little needles a bit at a time, which overall gives you that massive boost that you need. Cool. So yeah, so that’s our thing. So that was our session on self implement. As like I said, we’re really we love people who self implement. We’re always happy to help, and we always offer the 90 minute meeting, because if you even if you don’t even feel you’re ready quite yet for an implementer still booking a 90 minute meeting, we can take you through the tools. We can make sure that you’re using them in the right way, and one day, when you’re ready, we’ll be here for you.


Adam Harris  37:32

 Absolutely, I’m here to help.


Debra Chantry-Taylor  37:35

Yep, that’s one of our values, too, right? Brilliant. Absolutely, here to help. Hey, thank you, Adam, so much again. Thank you. We’ll see you again soon. Bye for now you.



Debra Chantry-Taylor 

Certified EOS Implementer | Entrepreneurial Leadership & Business Coach | Business Owner

#betterbusinessbetterlife #entrepreneur #leadership #eosimplementer #professionaleosimplementer #entrepreneurialbusinesscoach

Certified EOS Implementer New Zealand

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