Top tips from Ana & John Mann.

1. The law called allow.

I’ll tell you, the secret that I actually would still like to speak to is the secret of the law allow called allow. And my practical tip would be this allow is not allowing bad behavior, or allowing your your partner to just, you know, run roughshod over you in the family. The word allow, sometimes people get confused. What allow is, is that you’re allowing the other person to be who they are. And, and that and to not have an agenda to try to change them. And that’s, that demands a great deal of maturity, it demands a great deal of understanding. You know, your partner might be somebody who doesn’t like the telephone, and will avoid getting on the phone at all times. And you can’t be the person who’s trying to push them there.

2. Attending to somebody.

The second is, you know attending to somebody, you know, when you were young, when you were an infant, you literally couldn’t get fed, diapered bathe, nothing could happen unless somebody attended to you. Well, those are basic needs, and they continue as we get older. So recognizing that, you know, drawing a bath for somebody or making that special dinner, or, you know, sometimes I’ll bring John a plate of fruit and cheese at like, four in the afternoon, because I know it’s pre dinner, and he’s hungry. And you know, it might bring a glass of wine with it. But you know, the point being, it’s just little little efforts here and there, where you attend to the other person in a way that is just kindness. It’s giving, and it’s, it’s attached to some sort of some act of kindness

3. Sit down and start a list.

Here’s a very practical tip, sit down and start a list. 1234, a simple numbered list of what I love about you. Here’s what I love about I love about you, I love this about you, I don’t start making a list, get to 10 Trying to get to 10 You want to keep going after 10. But at least get that list go into 10 then with your list, pick one a day, to vocalize to tell your tell the person seek them out at some point in the day when when we’re both free. And tell them you know, I’ve been meaning to tell you I love that you blank blank blank or I love the way you are blank, blank blank. I love how you whatever it is. Just That’s it, just tell him that is let them know that and I just wanted to let you know that. Boom, tomorrow, a different one, check it off the list. After 10 days, you’ve changed the quality of the interaction of the relationship, you’ve changed the tone, the context of the marriage haven’t changed to you both are we’ve changed the context that you’ve you’ve reinforced the isness of the relationship.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

love, relationship, secrets, work, marriage, book, writing, giver, john, growing, day, partner, person, people, coaching, great, years, attended, give, couples

Ana Gabriel Mann  00:00

As I moved on, I, I decided to take on coaching as well, because I was fascinated by the coaching movement. And because I had had personal coaches that had made a dramatic difference in difference in my life. And the other thing is that at, in my experience being a couples therapist, I discovered that there really were these five sort of deadly sins, the sort of five things that people do that really break marriages down. And, you know, one of them being criticism, you know, criticism is death by 1000 cuts.

John David Mann  00:36

 one of the very first decisions was the marriage wasn’t in major crisis, major breakdown, they weren’t at each other’s throats, in, you know, seeing divorce lawyers in court, it wasn’t that bad. But there was something just missing. It wasn’t the way it had been when they first got a love. And that’s how it is for so many people. It’s not terrible. But years have gone by these two, Tom and Tess had been through tremendous stress, because they’re their first child, the first and only child was born with profound special needs.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:13

Hi, and welcome to another episode of Better Business better life. I am really, really excited this morning. Because those of you who listened to the podcast, I’m a big fan of the Go Giver book series. It’s something that I actually started reading, it completely changed my life. And I had Bob Berg on the podcast a few a few weeks ago. And I said to him, I love the series. I said, Well, actually, it wasn’t just me who wrote them. It’s actually John, who was the writer of them. And I said I’m gonna undergo given marriage was actually co authored by both John and his wife, Anna. So today, I’m really privileged to have both of these people on the south at show. So John and Ana, welcome to the show. lovely to have you here.

John David Mann  01:48

Thank you so much.

Ana Gabriel Mann  01:50

Thank you so much.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:52

So those of you who maybe haven’t read the Go Giver series, it’s a really beautiful book series of books that just the best way I can describe it as it makes you rethink your entire life. It gives five kind of key secrets to how you can live a great life. And then the Go Giver, marriage goes much more into the five secrets that will actually allow you to discover that little story about the five secrets to lasting love. So I’m going to ask John and Anna to actually share with us, you know, how they got to be on this journey of writing books and all the things that they do. John, would you like to start?

John David Mann  02:26

Well, sure, I’d be happy to. I’m so glad to be here. Thank you, Debra. Gosh, let’s see. Well, so I’m a writer. I haven’t always been a writer. I’ve bounced through a variety of different careers in my life. I’ve been a classical musician, I play the cello and compose music. I’ve been in business, I’ve been an entrepreneur. I’ve been involved in marketing, I’ve been education, I started a school when I was a teenager, I’ve just done a lot of different things. I’ve followed a lot of different interests. But they, they always seem to revolve around, I ended up being the guy writing the newsletter, or the article or the poster or whatever. And eventually, I really discovered that writing was my love. So I’ve published over 30 books, most of them had been in partnership with somebody else, somebody else’s like reading somebody else’s memoir, or co authoring a book as I’ve done with honor, or as I did the other books with Bob. And I just and I just love it. Now, Bob and I, I like to say Bob Berg ruined my career. Because I was all set to be a Hollywood screenwriter. This was my plan 25 years ago, whenever it was, and Bob Kenny and say, Hey, listen, you know, I got this, this idea for a book, but I don’t know how to write a book like this. Could you write it for me? You know, we’ll go into it together. You do the writing, and I’ll promote it. And we did. I wrote it and he promoted it. And it’s since sold over a million copies. It I never did get to Hollywood. I never did write screenplays. I ended up discovering that I loved writing books. The Go Giver was kind of my big break and writing books. And as you say, the whole series of Go Giver books followed and many other books. And now I’m writing novels and but way back, I’m just publishing my third thriller this summer. And that’s another love. But way back in 2005, when the first rough draft of the Go Giver spilled out of my desktop printer, Ana was the first person who read it on as the first person who reads everything I write. She’s my first reader. And she’s my best reader, not just because I love her, but also because she’s got a really good critical eye and she understands what I’m trying to say. And she’s just a really excellent reader. So I gave it to her and she said, Okay, thumb, thumb thumb, and she read the manuscript when she came back to me and she said, This is great. This is going to be huge. This would make a great book about marriage. And she had that idea way back then, that we should write a book together about marriage, according to the Go Giver principles, and you know, many other things gotten there. way there are other programming books to write other book projects to have happen. And the idea just kind of cooked along in the back burner until the pandemic hit. And then we saw, you know, after a year, year and a half, there were so many couples who had said, you know, in sickness and in health for richer for poorer, till death do us part, but they never intended that to be 24 hours a day. And suddenly, people are holed up together. And, and a lot of marriages were, frankly in breakdown in crisis. And I said, you know, if we’re ever going to write this book, now’s the time. So we did, and that first book,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  05:44

Sorry, to interrupt that time. Yeah, so that’s really interesting. Yeah.

John David Mann  05:48

Yeah, it’s the first book we’ve ever done together. And it was just absolute joy from start to finish. And that’s, that’s how we got here. Now we’re now we’re no, we’re not just men and wife, we’re co authors.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  06:00

Fantastic. Um, so we got your background, you’re not a screenwriter, but you’ve got into the writing novels and doing books and things under what is your background?

Ana Gabriel Mann  06:11

You know, I like John have had multiple careers, but my primary career, and the very first thing I trained as was a clinical therapist. And so I had the, the great joy of training with a very, very brilliant Israeli therapist, that was my supervisor straight into out of graduate school, and who I worked with for a number of years. And she was not only brilliant at group therapy, but she was brilliant at couples therapy, and brilliant at working with individuals and couples. So I spent a number of years there, and I moved on. And, you know, I was a therapist for a long, long time, I started to sort of lose my thread on what does it really mean to be that person that’s just listening, and listening, and listening. And not actually giving any feedback in a in a, you know, concrete way, doesn’t mean that you don’t reflect and give feedback. But, you know, your job in that role is to really help somebody formulate their own viewpoint. And so as I moved on, I, I decided to take on coaching, as well, because I was fascinated by the coaching movement. And because I had had personal coaches that had made a dramatic difference in difference in my life. And the other thing is that at in my experience, being a couples therapist, I discovered that there really were these five sort of deadly sins, the sort of five things that people do that really break marriages down. And, you know, one of them being criticism, you know, criticism is death by 1000 cuts. So I began to sort of formulate, what are the things that we all needed developmentally, as we were growing as we were babies and young children and adolescence? What are the things that we needed developmentally, in order to become a whole person who is capable of relating? And that’s how the five secrets were really born? Because the five secrets are actually the polar opposites of these five sort of deadly sins. And I was privileged to study with a number of people like John Gottman, and others along the way who influenced my work. Yes, very much. John Gottman is brilliant. And so I feel like my journey was that once we decided, you know, I had already been coaching couples and coaching individuals. And then the book, you know, sort of unfolded. And it took another step forward, in that I started training coaches and training more people to understand that there are some simple secrets to what makes relationships tick. And they’re the very things that we all need. And if you can kind of capture those secrets, you can really have a profound relationship that doesn’t involve codependence or trying to change the other person.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  09:22

Love it. So for those who who’ve not read the book, I’m gonna first of all say I highly recommend you do it. It definitely changed my view I system, having a bit of a joke beforehand, I’m on to my third marriage, sadly, but also gratefully, I mean, I love I’m loving the third time round, but I think that there was a lot of things that I didn’t really understand. And I think I fell into those five traps quite quite quickly, quite easily, without even realizing it. So the five things are appreciate, attend, allow, believe and grow. And the book it what I love about the book is it’s written as a story and bring some of the characters from the previous books into it and it takes you through their kind of life and the lessons they learn on the way So how how did you? How did you write it? I can’t even get my head around where you start with with writing something like this,

John David Mann  10:07

You know, first of all, I adore the Go Giver storyline. For those who haven’t read it, the Go Giver, the original giver is a parable. It’s a story about a young man named Joe, who was trying to figure out how to get ahead in business. And he learns from this wise old man named Pindar. And and there are other characters who start to recur in the subsequent Go Giver books, and all independent stories, but they each take place in the same fictional town, Pindar, his town. And as Debra said, some of the characters recur, I knew we were going to revisit the town, I knew that our hero was going to be a couple the called Tom and Tess and the story. And I knew that they were each going to have their own separate storyline, they were in that the marriage, one of the very first decisions was the marriage wasn’t in major crisis, major breakdown, they weren’t at each other’s throats, in, you know, seeing divorce lawyers in court, it wasn’t that bad. But there was something just missing. It wasn’t the way it had been when they first got on love. And that’s how it is for so many people. It’s not terrible. But years have gone by these two, Tom and Tess had been through tremendous stress, because they’re their first child, the first and only child was born with profound special needs. Now, this is a common experience millions and millions of people on it. And I both experienced this, by the way. So that took a toll on the relationship because it was so difficult dealing with this situation. And then there was work, and then there was finances, and that’s what happens. It isn’t that we set out to sabotage our relationships, it isn’t that we fall out of love. It isn’t that we disliked the other person. It’s that life wears us down. It tugs at our attention, there are other things that we need to deal with. And so we just kind of teach her that for granted, we start to slide. And those things that we did the ways that we attended to each other with such care when we were first falling in love, the ways that we were romantic with each other the ways that we paid attention to each other and learned about each other and observed each other. We can’t let that slide. Because it doesn’t seem essential. But it is essential. And Tom and Tess, both meet individual other individuals in the story that that gradually bring these truths to light for them. And I always have a lot of fun, winding toward a sort of a surprise ending that you can’t you don’t see coming. But once you see it, once it happens, you go, of course, it had to end that way. So I just had an absolute blast reading this story. And then I thought I was going to write like this short afterward have like three or four pages like and by the way, here’s how these things work. And she started handing me her drafts after I’d done my parents sending me drafts of what she was working on. I was like, Oh, this is growing. And it grew and grew. And it ended up being a whole second half of the book. And I could never have written what she wrote in the second half of the book, it complements the story and explains the principles so well, that it’s it’s like a whole book unto itself. So the process was a process of discovery for both of us. And we just had such a wonderful time writing.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  13:17

Yeah, I’m going to ask her a little bit more about that in a moment. But I guess it’s very similar to the Patrick Lencioni books, he does a similar thing. He kind of told his story upfront, and he actually explains the the rationale behind it and what is going on. And the second half of the book is very much about Yes. What does that actually mean? And how do you put into daily practice? And what can you do with that on a on a daily basis, which I love, because that gives people a real, practical, pragmatic set of tools they can do on a daily basis. It’s so good. Yeah. So you did that, that’s what you do is you’re the second half the book is very much about taking those five principles, describing what they really mean, how you can bring that into your daily thing. Tell us a little bit more about where how that came about and what you wanted to achieve with it.

Ana Gabriel Mann  14:03

Well, each secret has an opposite. And that opposite is again, what we call the five deadly sins, if you will, the five deadly habits, you know the things that really tear marriages down and tear relationships, even in business down. And I do want to say that these five secrets apply to business as clearly as they, you know, apply to marriages, and they also apply to parenting. So these are like sort of because these five secrets are based on developmental needs, the very things that you needed as a child attention, time appreciation, you know, somebody to take care of you when you skinned your knee or you were having a bad day. You know, these are the very things the foundations of what our basic human needs are. And so when you really conquer the secrets and you under stands the underpinnings of what makes them powerful, you have an arsenal of, of strength that you bring to the relationship. And in line with all the other Go Giver books, each one of these secrets is a way of giving to the relationship. And people will often say, you know, since we’re speaking to an audience abroad, I just want to say, a little slur on America’s that, you know, there’ll be a lot of people who will be like, Oh, well, I want a 5050 partnership. And we always say, you know, there’s, there’s no such thing as a 5050. Partnership. It’s, it’s the sum total of the marriage has to be 100%. And that means some days, you’re going to have 70. And he or she’s going to have 30. And you’re covering the extra 20%. Because that’s what makes a marriage whole is when there’s that giving. That generosity is when that giving and generosity is really aligned, then you can sorry, our, our our baby boys in a crate that near the door.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  16:10

How old is the baby boy,

Ana Gabriel Mann  16:12

He’s three. He shouldn’t be laying down. I wanted to keep him right next to me on the couch here. But he was just tired enough that I was afraid he was going to jump up and run to the door if you heard anything, and make noise. So anyways, to

Debra Chantry-Taylor  16:26

show you, I usually have my two puppies here with me in the studio. And they’re normally pretty good. But every once in a while they just yeah, they don’t behave. So people are used to hearing a little bit barking on the show. Alright, good. So yeah, as you were saying, it’s 100%. And so as you said, Sometimes one will be giving more than the other and vice versa. Exactly, isn’t it? Yeah.

Ana Gabriel Mann  16:46

It’s just, it’s, it’s just the realism. You know, some, you know, John, and I do a thing when we come home from from any day. And you know, it’s sort of like, how much have you got going on today? Well, I’ve got, you know, 30%. And the other one says, I’ve got 70, then we’re good. If the other one says I’ve got 50, then we’re both kind of like, okay, well, let’s make life really easy, simple dinner, a bath, or, you know, like, let’s just take the whole tenor down. So we can just both make it through the evening and go to sleep. Because sometimes the day is so stressful, that what you need the most from your partner is compassion and understanding that you’ve had a heck of a day, and you’re in no shape, for a sense of humor, or to be entertaining or to, you know, to do anything in that moment. So,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  17:38

Yeah, I think that’s really valid. I think that sometimes we don’t take the time to check in and see where the where the other partners actually at. And if you don’t know where they’re at, How can you even begin to engage them in a way that is appropriate? Do you do that with John, every day when you come home?

Ana Gabriel Mann  17:53

We both work from home, but we meet in the kitchen, and it’s like, how’s your day going? And sort of how much? How much energy Have you gotten? Where are you at in relation to us and the rest of the day? And it’s it’s a? Yeah, it’s a habit for us. And also, you know, that first secret, which is the secret of appreciation, you know, I have a coaching practice, which is a therapy slash coaching practice. I run groups and do group coaching. And a central question for me with all couples, and well, with all individuals I work with is, when was the last time you thanked your partner. And for what, because it’s really simple to walk through life and not to take the time to acknowledge that this other person is constantly doing things for you. Maybe he takes out the trash, maybe he walks the dog because you sprained your ankle and can’t walk the dog. You know, it’s like, maybe you got a cup of tea on your bedside table at seven in the morning. And that was just like a gift. And it’s those little things. And yet, a lot of times people just expect them but they don’t ever say thank you for them. They don’t say you know, I really love it when you bring me that cup of tea at 7am. That’s really so kind of you. Thank you. John actually delivers a cup of tea every morning. And he brings my computer to the bed at the same time so that while I’m having my first cup of tea, I can answer emails and just kind of get acclimated to the day. It’s such a small gesture, but it’s such a loving gesture. And so and I just I constantly appreciate it because I never tire of just being attended to in that way. Yeah,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  19:44

I completely agree. My husband actually brings me a cup of coffee but I’m not allowed to have a laptop. You’re gonna say

John David Mann  19:51

I want to just add she normally appreciates that she appreciates it. vocally. She tells me she appreciates it. She doesn’t have to but she does She says, Thank you so much vice. And later in the day, hours later, she’ll say, you know, trying to tell you I saw appreciate that you bring me that tea in the morning. Well, that would really be easy not to do this doesn’t need to do that. But she does. And you know what that matters, that makes a difference. It’s like depositing in a bank account. It’s like depositing positivity in our emotional bank accounts. And I’ve learned this from from her. And we both do this throughout the day, we are constantly frequently regularly telling each other how much we appreciate the other. And specifically for what, and that’s, you know, the specificity of it is a big deal. Because if you’re unspecific, it may means you could be kind of faking or just sliding, I appreciate you. Well, thank you. But why, for what, you know, because you’re a great gal, didn’t do it. Thank you so much for the way that you stop what you’re doing and listen to what I’m having some kind of an issue that I need to talk about whatever the appreciation happens to be your manners,

Ana Gabriel Mann  20:59

And we have jokes about how this gets played out. And one of them is, you know, the question that women will ask, like, do these jeans make my butt look fat? And, you know, one of my clients said, she asked me this. And then I said to her, is this a trick question? Is this a trick? A trick question. He said, Because nothing could make your butt, you know, he used the a word, nothing could make your butt not look great. And she said she walked away, like floating on a cloud? Well, it’s a simple little way of appreciating her, you know, he could have said, Yeah, you got an extra 10 pounds would be great. If you knocked it off. That wouldn’t be the way. So it’s like, it’s it can be simple little things. And, and appreciating can be all kinds of ways of flirting. You know, there’s just a lot of ways to let your partner know that you think they’re terrific. And one of them that’s in the book that I loved was a client who was heading out the door and his wife said, you know, Biggie, butts and jeans, she said, you know, have I told you lately that, you know, you look really good in those jeans. And he turned around and without missing a beat said, yeah, look even better out of them. They both laughed. And then he jumped into a van full of kids and took them to a ballgame. And you know, but it just sets a tone, there’s that energy of appreciating each other. And that’s what I was trying to come to, because when I was doing therapy with couples, I was always trying to help them, I was I was trying to educate them about how they could talk to each other ways that they could create intimacy with each other, that wouldn’t kill them. But that would actually enhance the relationship.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  22:51

And you’re not doing a lot of work or back to start doing work with CEOs and things of businesses who who are struggling as well tell us a little bit about that work that you’re about to start.

Ana Gabriel Mann  23:01

You know, I actually am leading a group coaching for men executives, and, you know, professionals. And it is specifically for people who feel that they’ve worked so hard at developing their business or their entrepreneurial journey, that they’ve kind of either dismissed or left their relationship a little bit to the side. And so it’s skill building, for how to bring the, the bring the lifeblood of the relationship back, and how to sort of warm it up so that the relationship thrives as much as the business does. Because women are naturally attracted to men who are successful. And so it’s like, I like to tell men, I’m just so thrilled that you’re successful, because that’s your power. And don’t lose that for a moment. I mean, be powerful, go after it. But don’t forget your children. Don’t forget your wife, or your partner. You know, it’s, it’s, there’s always another person in, in the relationship that is, is wanting in some way. And if you can just keep the lights on to what those wants are and or just find your own ways of feeding and nourishing the relationship. The skills are not hard. It’s just actually taking the time to do them. And I have men in my practice right now that literally set five or six times a day. And they actually put little homework attached to all those timers. And they’re at work, but one of them will send his wife a little love note or a little sexy text at like to in the afternoon. And then at 330 He’ll say hey, I’m I’m gonna be out here at you know, in an hour. Is there anything I can do for you on the way home or something like that? You know, I’m In this, his wife adores him, because he’s always attending to her, and in just little ways, but those II says it literally takes him five minutes a day, it’s a one minute per alarm for the intervention he’s going to make that is about her. And it, you know, takes care of everything. He said sometimes that, you know, he’ll take his 230 in the afternoon alarm, and he’ll make a dinner date for three nights from now on Friday night at a restaurant, he knows she loves. And then he’ll send her a note saying, Hey, I got reservations at such and such a place.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  25:37

Beautiful. Yeah, yeah. And it is I mean, I think using using technology to kind of help you as well, I know that I’m, I’m guilty of sometimes we are getting so engrossed in my work that I, I forget what time it is. And so I’ve actually now got reminders in my calendar that actually, I’m supposed to be going home having dinner with my husband. And it’s not that I don’t want to go home to deal with my husband. But sometimes we just get too caught up in what we’re doing. So using that technology to remind you, I think is really important.

Ana Gabriel Mann  26:03

Absolutely.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  26:06

John, I can see that you’re you wanting to say something along those lines? How do you you know, how do you keep this stuff alive for you?

John David Mann  26:16

Yeah, you know, I just want to sort of take the take off in the topic of appreciation that has been talking about instead of taking it to another notch, which is one of the other secrets, which is which we call believe, and it’s believing in the other person and telling them that you do vocalizing that is a lot like appreciation, but it kind of goes more to the core of the person. So I might appreciate you for lots of specific things. But believing in someone is is something appreciating the core of their essence of who they are. And the example that I want to give him and we mentioned it in the book, but it just was sparking to my mind as Anna was talking. You know, it’s great to say, thank you for taking care of the kids this morning, or you look great in those jeans, or, you know, thank you so much for bring me a cup of tea for years on would tell me that she thought I would be a great novelist. She loves my writing. And she tells me that she loves it, and I so appreciate that. But she used to say, you know, you’d be a great novelist, and I honestly, never I didn’t believe her. I wasn’t just being false. You know, false modesty. It’s like I genuinely wouldn’t, I would say like, Thank you for the vote of confidence. Translation. Yeah, I don’t see it. I don’t. The idea. I loved reading novels. And they seemed the idea of writing one seemed dauntingly next to impossible, like scaling a mountain. And so even to the point where sometimes she would say, I would tell her about some great novel I’d read and she would say, that’s great, you could do that. It would almost make me uncomfortable. Because I so didn’t feel that that was true. But she persisted. And not in an obnoxious way. She didn’t pester me about it. But she would just every now and then say you would be I just know you’d be a great novelist you would do, you would great, great novels. And she just believed it. And she kept believing it. And she kept letting me know that she believed it. She didn’t pester me about it. She just held on to it. And years went by and eventually the time came and I wrote a novel, my first novel was nominated for a berry award. And it was named one of the best novels in the air. And it’s like, she was right. I could write novels, but I don’t think I ever I know, I would never have done that. If it hadn’t been for her. This is something we need to do with our kids. Most parents know this on some level, we need to be the ones who let our kids know, you can be a fantastic dancer, violinist, athlete, parent, friend, whatever it is that you want to do. We see in our kids, the stuff that’s great that they don’t see. Well, we need to do that for our spouse too. Even when they’re grown up, even when they’re like sophisticated adults, even when they have full blown careers, we still need to be the one that says you are so good at this You’re so good at the way that you listen to people when they’re having a problem. Or the way that you take charge when the place is a mess. Or the way that you keep your coal when everybody else is getting. You’re so good at this with this or this. We need to be the holder of the flame for our spouse and they really need to do the same thing for us. So again, something it’s so easy not to do it so is it let it slide or even to just think it but not say it. Take the trouble. Take the time. Take the care to say it vocalize it put it out loud.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  29:40

Perfect. And this is actually what I loved about the book I mean there’s nothing in there is massive nothing and there is going it’s all very small things small things often that you can do that will actually improve improve the relationship. So true. Gosh, I we could probably talk about this all day because I love I love people. I love relationships. I love marriage, but I do we We need to give some practical tips that we can actually share with the listeners that they can take away and put into their practice. So I usually ask for kind of three top things, I know you’ve got five different areas, what do you think are the three most important? If you had to start somewhere? What would be the three most important things? Do you think?

Ana Gabriel Mann  30:17

Oh, wow. You know it? Well, I’ll tell you, the secret that I actually would still like to speak to is the secret of the law allow called allow. And my practical tip would be this allow is not allowing bad behavior, or allowing your your partner to just, you know, run roughshod over you in the family. The word allow, sometimes people get confused. What allow is, is that you’re allowing the other person to be who they are. And, and that and to not have an agenda to try to change them. And that’s, that demands a great deal of maturity, it demands a great deal of understanding. You know, your partner might be somebody who doesn’t like the telephone, and will avoid getting on the phone at all times. And you can’t be the person who’s trying to push them there. You know, if it’s, if it’s me, that’s a strange example. But John doesn’t like to talk on the phone, it’s not an easy thing for him, his mother didn’t like to talk on the phone. And so I never tried to engage him in that way or push him to engage in that way. It because it’s just not who he is. And so it’s allowing the other person to be who they are, and define who they are, at the same time that you’re encouraging them to, to be who they are, and giving them permission, if you will. And that’s very freeing in a relationship because the whole basis of codependence is somebody trying to control the other person’s behavior. And, you know, you can’t control the other person’s behavior, the only person’s behavior you can control is your own. So, so that’s one practical tip. The second is, you know, attending to somebody, you know, when you were young, when you were an infant, you literally couldn’t get fed, diapered bathe, nothing could happen unless somebody attended to you. Well, those are basic needs, and they continue as we get older. So recognizing that, you know, drawing a bath for somebody or making that special dinner, or, you know, sometimes I’ll bring John a plate of fruit and cheese at like, four in the afternoon, because I know it’s pre dinner, and he’s hungry. And you know, it might bring a glass of wine with it. But you know, the point being, it’s just little little efforts here and there, where you attend to the other person in a way that is just kindness. It’s giving, and it’s, it’s attached to some sort of some act of kindness. And, John, do you have another UAN? Or two or three?

John David Mann  33:12

Yeah, okay. So here’s, here’s, here’s a very practical tip, sit down and start a list. 1234, a simple numbered list of what I love about you. Here’s what I love about I love about you, I love this about you, I don’t start making a list, get to 10 Trying to get to 10 You want to keep going after 10. But at least get that list go into 10 then with your list, pick one a day, to vocalize to tell your tell the person seek them out at some point in the day when when we’re both free. And tell them you know, I’ve been meaning to tell you I love that you blank blank blank or I love the way you are blank, blank blank. I love how you whatever it is. Just That’s it, just tell him that is let them know that and I just wanted to let you know that. Boom, tomorrow, a different one, check it off the list. After 10 days, you’ve changed the quality of the interaction of the relationship, you’ve changed the tone, the context of the marriage haven’t changed to you both are we’ve changed the context that you’ve you’ve reinforced the isness of the relationship. As opposed to you over there in the middle over here. We have a friend who tried to make that list go to 100. And I think she got the 50 or so by the time her her 10th anniversary came around. She gave it to her husband as a 10th anniversary presents 100 things I love about you, but she only got two. But that’s that’s um, that’s a very simple thing you can do. Just tell them one a day. And it’ll make a big difference. By the way, by the way on, I mentioned work. Tip number two, you can do this with coworkers. You don’t use the word. You’re the things right 10 things I appreciate about you. I appreciate the fact that you’re almost every morning you’re here on time. I appreciate that don’t make a big deal out of it, don’t make a big fuss, just that, that it starts to, it starts to really shift the tone of the whole situation,

Ana Gabriel Mann  35:10

I was going to add that you could do it for children, or you could do it at work. Because I think, exactly what you said is true. You know, when you take the time, it’s like the One Minute Manager, you take the time to catch people doing things, right. And to let them know how much you appreciate that. It’s so powerful. And same with your children, you know, just take the time to tell them that they’re doing a good job. It’s it’s so powerful.

John David Mann  35:36

I just want to add to this that, you know, since we’re since we have some free Mike for a moment, that on a personal point of view, from a personal point of view, when Ana and I first got together, when we first began seeing each other and having having a friendship. I wasn’t that great at doing this, I wasn’t very skillful at articulating how I felt about things. I was very skillful about articulating lots of other stuff, I was already a writer. But when it came to saying how, what I thought about things or what I felt about things, particularly about what I felt about, you know, personal things, if I was having a fight with somebody, or I wasn’t getting along with somebody or I was I was having a hard time with something. It was it was very difficult for me to put that in words, and often feel so trapped by the situation like I don’t want to talk about this. And I learned from ANA how to take a deep breath, take the pressure off and say, you know, I just need a minute to gather my thoughts and and to start to put these things in, in words. It felt silly at first almost because hey, I’m a grown up and I write books and I should be. But you know, people often say this, saying what I appreciate to my spouse, it feels kind of weird. It feels kind of foolish, it feels kind of awkward. You know what, that’s okay. Let it feel foolish. Let it feel awkward, completely normal completely. Okay. If she will, she or he will appreciate the awkwardness I promise you. It’s, it’s, it’s like a muscle that we’ve forgotten how to use or we haven’t used for a long time. So go ahead and go through the awkwardness and just go ahead and do it. Just just go ahead and do it.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  37:15

I’m sorry, I lost you there. Just remember, but I know the listeners still got the there. i We actually use it as a tool. We use it as a tool with teams as well, though. And he said you can obviously use it with your your coworkers, but we actually use it in some of our team building exercises is just actually telling people what you really appreciate about them, the people that you work with, as well as people that you you live with at home. Just it’s just so powerful, isn’t it? As humans we’re not doing

John David Mann  37:40

It is and the other side of it is powerful to being the recipient of that and not saying oh, gosh, no, you’re actually saying thank you, I appreciate that. Taking it in. You know, it’s the law of receptivity, the fifth love the Go Giver, that’s that’s a part of it, too. We need to not only give the appreciation, but accept it and say thank you, that is so nice of you to say I really appreciate hearing that.

Ana Gabriel Mann  38:04

And I have a last practical tip. Or another practical tip, if Please, yeah, if there’s still airtime. You know, the fifth secret of the book is in in many ways, the most powerful secret in terms of understanding what makes a relationship really stay strong for the long haul. And it’s the secret called grow. And it’s the thing that people stop doing. Sometimes they get into the relationship, I’ve seen it happen with a lot of women where they have children, they focus and devote their whole energy to the children. And then all of a sudden, they’re focusing their energy on the grandchildren. And, you know, 25 or 30 years goes by, and they haven’t done anything to really sort of grow themselves in a really personal way. They’ve given all their energy all their time, and all their devotion to taking care of others. And growing yourself is one of the most important things that we do in life. And the truth about longevity, whether it’s just living to be 9500 Is that curiosity. And the capacity to continue to learn and grow is really what keeps people vibrant and alive. And so in every relationship, it’s really important to not try to define yourself through your partner, like John’s a brilliant writer, and I’m just astonished by who he is. But I’m, I have my own corner. I have my own things that I’m devoted to my practice my coaching, you know, numbers of other types of work. And so, you know, if you can keep growing and keep developing yourself, then you always have something knew to bring back to the relationship as you learn and grow and explore. It’s like the conversations between you and your partner get richer and richer.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  40:12

Oh, yes. So true. And I think that can happen on both sides. It can be that, you know, the wife is kind of looking after the or the partner who’s looking after children or grandchildren, but also the people who get so busy and work that they don’t find the time to actually work on growing themselves as well. So if you’re a busy entrepreneur, how would you recommend they find that time? And what could they do to to get to make sure they’re doing that part of growing as well?

Ana Gabriel Mann  40:40

Well, a question I frequently asked in my practice to people is, you know, if you could do something as an avocation, like, what would your heart really pull you toward? What what is your heart’s calling on something outside of your work that you really love, and sometimes it’s something simple, like, you know, it could be, you know, they enjoy copywriting, or they enjoy, you know, does book design, you know, or they just, they enjoy, you know, some martial art. You know, it’s, it’s really individual, for every person, some people really want to get home from work, and go to their office and play a cello for an hour. Yes. And it really just is what unwinds them, but it’s also what enriches them. And, you know, that might involve them going to specific symphonies, or, you know, just sort of keeping your, your attention toward that area that really just feeds you and nourishes you.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  41:39

You’ve got time to pursue other passions, right? Yep. And

John David Mann  41:44

I would add to that, there’s also, you know, there also may be avenues within one’s work, where you explore new ways of doing this work, or new new opportunities within this work, or new ways of relating to the staff in that there may be also paths of growth, that are right in front of us, in our actual entrepreneurial business, that allow us to expand who we are the definitions of who we are the boundaries of who we are, by by that 95, or whatever the hours are, we spend there as well. So you know, it’s, yeah.

Ana Gabriel Mann  42:15

And I’ll add even another thought to that. Okay, so we all come to our relationships with all the baggage that we carried from childhood, you know, the problem, the big, the big, you know, difficult problem in the center of the room, the elephant, if you will, that’s in every relationship is, you know, maybe your father verbally abused you when you were little, maybe your mother was somebody who hit you, you know, maybe you were constantly neglected and ignored. Maybe you were even told that you weren’t good enough, you know, and so we bring those tapes with us. And sometimes, if you can wake up to a pattern that isn’t serving you anymore. And that is clearly that you’re projecting onto your partner, that has nothing to do with them. It’s your material, when you can wake up to that, that is growing.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  43:09

Perfect, thank you. Oh, gosh, I honestly, I couldn’t sit here and listen for hours. But I do want to make sure that people know how to get in contact with you. So if you want to read some of these fantastic novels that I haven’t read yet myself, to be honest, but um, now that I know that you’re writing novels, I’m going to have a look at them. John, how do people find you? How do they get ahold of you?

John David Mann  43:28

Well, I’ll send you to two places. There’s there’s the we have a website for the Go Giver marriage for the two of us and for honest practice, and it’s simply go give her marriage.com. Go give her marriage.com No, though, just go give her marriage.com. And then I also have a site myself, my name John, David mann.com. And all my books are there. And that’s, that’s a way people can get in touch with me as well. If people are interested in anything on his doing in terms of her coaching her work. The best way to get in touch with her about that is through the Go Giver marriage website.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  44:06

So everything is in that one place makes it nice and easy. So

Ana Gabriel Mann  44:09

I can Yeah, I can also be reached on Instagram. And I absolutely answer messages there. Talk to you know, people that are interested in being clients or in working together and can go back and forth. And you know, I will make my email available through Instagram or through that site or through the go get remarried or go giver marriage site.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  44:34

Fantastic. Hey, look, thank yo so much for your time. I appreciate it’s late in the evening over there for us. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me. I’ve actually dragged the book out. I’ve got it here in front of me. I’ve remembered that yeah, I’m gonna go back through it again. And just make sure that I’m taking note of all of those daily practices. Yep. And we’re gonna check out the website too because go giver merge.com obviously has support material there and it will no doubt be helpful. So if you haven’t read the book, honestly, go out and grab it on kin. Don’t get a real hard copy whatever works for you but it has just been the whole series been life changing for me but I really enjoyed the marriage one so thank you guys appreciate your time lovely to speak to you

John David Mann  45:11

Thank you so much Debra

Ana Gabriel Mann  45:12

Yes thank you

Debra Chantry-Taylor  45:15

Absolute pleasure.

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Debra Chantry-Taylor 

Professional  EOS Implementer | Entrepreneurial Leadership & Business Coach | Business Owner

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