Top tips from Jonathan Smith.
1. Stay curious.
Number one, stay curious. So when I say stay curious, I mean, when you are frustrated, and you want to tell someone, I’m right, you’re wrong. There’s a reason that they’re in fact, frustrated. And if you can stay curious and be open minded. You have a better chance to come come out with better outcome.
2. Learn to listen.
So there’s five levels of listening. So listening for the just like, you know, it’s like me talking to you and going like listening to my phone and being like, yeah, oh, I heard what you said. That’s right. Okay. Listening to respond. We see this in session all the time. That’s someone who like leans in is like me, and then they don’t even respond to what the other person they’re just responding but has nothing to do with maybe what the other person said. The goal is to listen, for logic, you need to listen for the logic of what the other person is having said So there’s five levels of listening. So it’s listening for the just listening for to respond. You don’t want to be an either of them. listening for logic is where you can actually say, then listening for emotion. So like, you can’t even you can’t stay in listening for emotion, but you can hear it and sort of like doing doing yoga and staying focusing on your breath. And then listening for their point of view. You don’t have to agree with their point of view, but in the highest level of bliss. You will hear their point of view, even if you disagree with it, at least you could understand what their point of view is. So, in that case, I’m saying, listen for logic, try to stay in listening for logic, and try to avoid listening for listening to respond.
3. EOS is simple.
The third thing I would say as EOS is simple, but it’s not easy. So, and it takes time, and you need to be patient with it, and realize that it took you a long time to get here. EOS is a way of life. It’s not, it’s not like a certificate put on the wall. So be patient with yourselves and focus on the game that you’re achieving, not the gap that you haven’t achieved yet.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
eos, implementer, people, business, black swan, clients, amazing, facilitation, gino, chris, jonathan, book, work, skills, core values, tyler, coach, work life balance, love, middle east
Debra Chantry-Taylor 00:00
Good morning and welcome to another edition of better business better life. Today I’m pretty excited because I am being joined by Jonathan v. Smith, who is over in a city that is on my bucket list. So New York City.
Jonathan Smith 00:20
Expert EOS implementer means I’ve done over 500 sessions with clients with a certain quality score. I know it’s a 500 sessions with clients. So I’ve done like 1200 sessions with clients at this point. I mean, my favorite tools, my favorite tools, the tool that works at the time, because I love being able to sort of have a toolbox and be like, Oh, I have, I have this toolbox. And I get to choose which tool I need to apply for the team at the time they need it.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 01:01
Jonathan is an entrepreneur, he is an expert, EOS implementer. And also a negotiation coach. So quite a bit of experience there with Jonathan, welcome to the show. Jonathan. lovely to have you.
Jonathan Smith 01:11
Thanks, Debra. Happy to be here.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 01:14
Yeah, I’m super excited. We always have a little bit of a chat before we come on and just hearing your experience. I mean, you started as Gina Whitman seconds client. So I’m going to sitting here at a bit of a fangirl moment right now kind of go well, I’ve got somebody who knows data from the beginning. But tell us a bit about your story. And how did you get to meet Dizzy Gino Wickman?
Jonathan Smith 01:33
Well, I actually met Gino at an elf e o event. So the Entrepreneurs Organization, he and I were both in the Entrepreneurs Organization in Detroit, and he had just sold his business with his dad and there was some guy bouncing around. We were at a bar and he was bouncing around the bar like super high energy. I’m like, Who’s that guy? I want to meet that guy. So I ended up introducing myself. Gina was trying to figure out what he was going to do on his next gig. It wasn’t called EOS. At that time, I was called virtual CEO. And so I got to see EOS before it became the world famous EOS.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 02:15
That is amazing. Yeah. Okay. And so this man that was bouncing, like imagine Judo bouncing around the bar. You engaged with him? What were you doing at that time? Like why? Why did Were you even interested in speaking with him?
Jonathan Smith 02:28
Well, I just wanted to meet him because he seemed like a cool guy with like, almost like a halo on his head. That wasn’t a fanboy conversation. It was literally he came in like a ball of energy. And so we talked to him, and we were having some challenges in our business at the time, and four partners, and we couldn’t seem to quite get along and make enough money and make the business work. And Gino said, I’m doing this coaching, why don’t you come and try this coaching with me. So for $1,500 a day, we paid Gino to come in and he practiced on us. And there was no no EOS processor.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 03:05
Yeah, so he was sort of like his, you know, when we first started as a US implementers we always have a couple of clients that we kind of practice on your Geno’s practice client,
Jonathan Smith 03:13
On his practice client, and we’re still friends. So that’s that’s something
Debra Chantry-Taylor 03:18
That is wonderful. So that business, he was saying you had four partners was that family, non family? How did those four partners come together?
Jonathan Smith 03:27
Three family members. So my brother Tyler, my cousin, Jeremy, and third party partner named les ROM. So and then myself? Sure.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 03:36
And so Gino came in? What did he discover was the real issue with you?
Jonathan Smith 03:43
Well, if you read page 53 attraction, he talks about how we had different core values. So we are the example of having different core values and the business falling apart because we wanted different things from our lie. And
Debra Chantry-Taylor 03:57
that must have been a wee bit of a revelation for you. Because I bet you’re at that point, you’re wondering, you know, why is this not working out? And then suddenly you have the the answer, if you like,
Jonathan Smith 04:06
we were just grateful to have an answer was a lot of it was really painful to try and figure it out ourselves and say, we’re smart. Why can’t we figure this out? Why is it so difficult, why it’s so hard to get projects out and make money and so it was really nice to have, you know, help us get some clarity there.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 04:22
So I’m curious. And with that sort of sharing, I mean, I only share what you can share, I suppose what actually happened with that business. In the end.
Jonathan Smith 04:29
I left. I taught myself how to do search engine optimization. So in like 1999, I taught myself to do search engine optimization. By 2003. I had I had an offer from Sheryl Sandberg at Google to come work for her and had lunch with Eric Schmidt and spoke to 400 engineers I had sort of taught myself how to do search engine optimization, so I went and did that. And the business sort of clipped along less kept the business my cousin Jeremy left the Business, he ultimately went into the financial services business and recently sold that business to to a large aggregator. My brother Tyler became the CIO at ELS and I went and worked with my dad in the security business, and then ultimately came back from the Middle East. And I decided I didn’t want to be on long haul flights anymore and became an implementer. So in 2013 2013, so
Debra Chantry-Taylor 05:25
1010 years ago, and so why did you decide to become an implementer?
Jonathan Smith 05:32
Well, I didn’t want to work for anyone else. And I don’t think I was qualified to work for anyone else, that sort of joke. But I came back having done some pretty amazing things in the Middle East, sold a couple 100 million dollars worth of projects there, met with the royal families doing work for them coming home to get a job, but just didn’t seem to be on the, in the cards for me, Tyler said to me, oh, pain is doing really well. And, you know, Mark, Mark was doing really well at the time and Mark winters. And so he said, You totally can do this. You’re an entrepreneur, you know how to sell, you understand the system, you just don’t have a network domestically. So he encouraged me to do it. And you know that going back to the theme of your podcast, like, I only had, like $10,000 left in the bank after having saved a ton of money, and it was time to go figure out something and so I grounded out for 18 months to go figure out how to make it work. And my tried to quit four or five times before that my brother Tyler kept me on the straight and narrow. So thank you.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 06:37
Tyler. Because now you’re an expert, US implementer which means for those who don’t know what is an expert, EOS implementer
Jonathan Smith 06:43
Expert EOS implementer means I’ve done over 500 sessions with clients with a certain quality score. I know it’s a 500 sessions with clients. So I’ve done like 1200 sessions with clients at this point.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 06:57
Wow. That’s amazing. I know. You said you done 150 implementations. So what was it about in the business that you’re working in with your your brothers in your other shareholder? You It was obviously about having core values and making sure you’re on the same page? What do you what do you say now has been the sort of the the revolutionary thing of Eos for you when you’re working with other businesses? What do you think is the thing that most makes the most difference?
Jonathan Smith 07:24
Well, I love that we have a system that we can start with. So I call it structured flexibility. EOS gives me structure as an entrepreneur to engage with a business as opposed to doing some kind of custom consulting gig every single time. And then it engages me in conversations with such such a wide array of entrepreneurs, that I have really amazing experience that I can share across clients, because for the most part, they’re not competitive. Generally, I’ll conflict myself out if I’m with a client who I feel is in any way competitive, I don’t want to feel like I would compromise. You know, my anyone feel like I’m compromising them. And so we have this great system markets really well. I know it really well like the back of my hand. And then as I told you, I also work with Chris boss from never split the difference. And I’ve taught myself or at least just engaged in facilitation. So EQ facilitation, facilitation around like, academically, what does it mean? And then with Chris, hostage negotiation, which is just another form of Kingdom communication and facilitation, we call it tactical empathy. So being able to get in the room with the right people who trust me, and then have really having really difficult conversations and solving really difficult problems, and helping them create self managing businesses is a it’s a who it is.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 08:49
Yeah, and I configure, I’m not an expert by any means I’m a certified as well. But I’ve certainly love the journey so far. And I think one of the things that people often say though, you know, EOS is its it is a framework, it is a structure. So therefore, you know, do you end up having a cookie cutter solution? How would you answer that?
Jonathan Smith 09:09
I believe in structured flexibility, so I am not the one who has a cookie cutter solution. I Gino says I am his most visionary implementer. So okay, I do my best to follow the agenda. But you guys, my facilitation coach likes to say you can’t take a team where they don’t want to go. So you have to deliver them what they need at the time that they need it. And Mark O’Donnell, our partners, marks the visionary out of us now. And sometimes I would fill in for him or vice versa. And the clients were always amazed at how we ended up in the same place and we took a different path in a session together. So I think that’s what’s important that we do the best we can to follow the 15% of Eos that needs to be completely restructured and then the rest is facilitation. A Have you focus on.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 10:02
That I agree completely, I think the end of the day, it’s very much about the structure provides you with a framework to achieve the right outcomes. But how you get there, I’ve always find it’s very, very different with every client that I work with, you know, we always start at the same time and kind of finish more or less around the same time. And we get the same sort of outcomes, but there can be very, very different pathways to get there. And that’s really down to that facilitation.
Jonathan Smith 10:24
And it feels oftentimes, like you’re gonna crash the plane during the day, you’re like, I’m not sure how we’re gonna get from here to the end of the day, but miraculously, it happens most of
Debra Chantry-Taylor 10:35
the time. Yeah, that is interesting, isn’t it? I must admit, I’ve, in the early days, you know, I think I was probably a lot more sort of, you know, we’ve got to be, we’ve got it, we’ve got some as easy as implementers, we’ve got some guidelines around, you know, what each section should take. And I used to get really nervous, because this is supposed to take half an hour, we’ve already been at it for an hour. But if, as a good facilitator, you always get there in the end, and it’s just about adjusting to what’s in the room.
Jonathan Smith 10:59
You’re familiar, a lot of adjusting.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 11:01
And having those uncomfortable conversations. I love that. I mean, I might the elephant is my favorite kind of tool if you like. So tell me a little about the negociation stuff. Because that never split the difference. That book was a bit of an eye opener for me. I remember reading it probably about a year ago now. And it was like, Wow, this this opened my eyes to a different way of thinking about things. So how did you meet Chris? How did you get involved? And what is it that that has taught you?
Jonathan Smith 11:28
So I lived in DC, when I came back from the Middle East. I had been in Abu Dhabi and I moved back to the Middle East. There’s a business club in DC called the tower club. It is the business club that everyone sort of goes to for breakfast. So if you’re going to have a meeting, you’re like, oh, let’s just go meet at the tower club. I don’t have anywhere to go or anything to do. So I joined the tower club, and I go to breakfast at the tower club. And there was a guy named said at the tower club, who sort of held the court there every morning. And he goes, Chris, this is Jonathan. Jonathan, this is Chris, you should talk. So Chris talking. He had a need to help. He needed help with negotiating something in the Middle East getting paid, he wasn’t getting paid. And he wanted to know how things work. I happen to actually have the intelligence for how the how things worked in the Middle East or in UAE better than he did. I helped him with that. And I became friends. He told me he was writing a book. I’m like, Yeah, you and everybody else are writing a book. That book ended up being never split the difference which he wrote with tall rods, who in tall is world famous and the best at what he does in the business. And Chris is the best at what he does in the business. And then I helped Chris get his first talk with a yellow New Jersey and then another talk with YPO. And then Chris is super hard worker. So he just has been on a plane promoting the book, and the Black Swan group and tactical empathy, since 2000, and I don’t know 15 Or something like that. And I was their implementer. So I often say I’m the architect on the business architect for the business, whereas Chris is he’s our spokesmodel. He’s the best guy on on that camera. He loves me on the camera and does amazing things. And I helped architect the business. And in the process of hanging out with him and his son, Brandon and the team at the Black Swan group. I was like this is fascinating. I want to learn how these skills work. So I just started learning the skills and it’s gotten to the point where I am now a certified Black Swan coach. I am in the process of building an AI bot that helps train people in the black swan skills. I am in fact doing a black swan training at our EOS annual conference in Dallas that will be sort of a combination of Eos and Black Swan and the idea is going to teach you how to do better business development. I’m going to teach you how to facilitate better and then I’m going to teach you how to raise your fees using the black swan skills to negotiate so there’ll be 100 implementers there at the at the event and it’s just being with Chris has been an amazing run for me we it’s one of those things that just sort of like my relationship with Gino, it just works for both of us. And we and we work really well together.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 14:19
Okay, now we talked about Dallas before we got on this. This podcast. I said I wasn’t sure if I was going I think he might have just changed my mind. Yeah, that’s great. Okay, so the the combination of the Black Swan training and the Eos, what does that give you in terms of working with clients? Do you think?
Jonathan Smith 14:42
I have skills in the room that when things get really hot, no one else has those skills. Chris has those skills, but he doesn’t have the US skills. And Derek who’s our head coach at black swan has those skills. They’re amazing hostage negotiators. But I’m the hostage so they’re hostage negotiators with Hundreds of successful hostage negotiations. I am a business coach with hundreds of successful business, hostage negotiations. So I can be in the room and see things now. And I call things out in a way that I never did when I was starting. So when someone asks a question, and that’s really interesting, what are they saying? So like, instead of saying, Why did you say that? On that analysis, I’ll now label it and go, seems like there’s a reason you’re asking dynamic silence, wait for them to respond. Three seconds later, they’ll tell you, Oh, that person’s actually needs to get fired, or I’m upset and I need to leave or I don’t know, whatever the issue is, whatever your elephant that you’re throwing at me, is that they’ll tell me that, but using tactical empathy. The issue is it’s it’s another language, the only way to learn is by doing immersion, and immersion being literally using the skills in first we say using the skills as in low stakes practice, and then ultimately being able to use of skills in high stakes.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 16:17
I do like that. It’s amazing how the subtlety of words can make such a huge difference, isn’t it?
Jonathan Smith 16:24
Like a Jedi mind trick? It’s amazing. Like, you’re like, how did that work? That way? I would have upset them. If I said, Why did you ask? And when I say seems like there’s a reason you’re asking. They melt and tell me? Yeah,
Debra Chantry-Taylor 16:36
I’ve written that down. I think that’s really important since otherwise, you’re asking, I was talking to somebody yesterday on the podcast, and she had another sort of way of having people answer questions in different way. And I just yeah, as I said, it’s it can be very, very subtle, but just having that empathy, changing the words that you use, rather than triggering triggering somebody you’re actually creating them to, and you’re causing them to open up. So mad is not waking this morning.
Jonathan Smith 17:00
Well, we in my mantras, you may know is Stay curious. So you need to stay curious, because the way they’re acting has nothing to do with me. Something’s going on for them. What’s the Black Swan? What’s behind that behavior? And as an EOS implementer and Black Swan coach, what’s important is that we stay curious. And we don’t take it personally. Yeah, there’s sometimes some pretty hot, hot issues we’re dealing with. Yeah,
Debra Chantry-Taylor 17:29
Absolutely. I think is probably why I enjoy being an EOS implementer as I was also very, very curious child. And I’m very, very good at sort of, you know, asking questions and trying to get to the root cause of certain things. I think I enjoy that part of it.
Jonathan Smith 17:43
Well, we’re lucky we get to learn from so many smart people.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 17:48
And it’s not really a job as it is something that we talk about the EOS life. I think in the beginning, when I first saw that whole EOS life, I thought that sounds really amazing. And I think now, what, three and a half years in almost four years, and I am living that EOS life, it’s doing what I love with people, I love getting to make a huge difference. And I’m finding time to pursue other passions. Finally, which took me a long time to actually do.
Jonathan Smith 18:11
Well, you certainly look happy. Oh,
Debra Chantry-Taylor 18:13
I Yeah, I’d say I love what I do, which is why I’m here on the weekend doing a podcast because I actually enjoy it. But and it’s funny because people always say, Oh, this whole work life balance, I have a different way of viewing it now. So I thought work life balance meant that you know, you kind of work nine to five ish and then handle this time. But actually, it’s about what works for you. And for me, I’m in here on a Saturday morning doing a couple of hours of podcasting. But then I’ll probably take some time off on Tuesday and go do something else that I want to do. Because that works for me timing wise. So I think the whole work life balance is an interesting concept. Particular when you love what you do,
Jonathan Smith 18:47
I say that my my sister knows she calls me an outdoor cat. She’s like, I don’t want too many parameters. I’m like, Don’t put me to scheduled. I want some time in between, I want to be able to walk on the street and have a call. Again, I didn’t want to be on Zoom. This week. I didn’t have any session next week, I have four. So just the way it’s a nice way to live life and talk to my brother on Monday, one of my brothers and I’m like, Oh, I don’t have to work today. He’s like, that must be nice. I’m like, what didn’t mean I didn’t work at all. It just means I don’t have to go to an office. And I didn’t have to be with clients that day.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 19:23
Yeah. So one of the things I’m going to ask you as an expert, some of us and one of the things I hear a lot is like, oh, it’s easy for you to say that, Debra, because you know, you run a small practice and you a couple of people working in that and you can you know, if you take a day off, it doesn’t matter. I’ve got a big business that’s got 140 staff, you know, how’s that going to work for me? How would you answer? Well,
Jonathan Smith 19:44
I mean, I would just like the you know, the question is, how’s that working for you? Know, that’s what I would ask them that’s a calibrated question. It’s open ended question and just say how’s that working for you?
Debra Chantry-Taylor 19:56
And then my husband is listening to this podcast. He’s gonna be giggling to himself because that is my I have a question for people is that how’s that working for you? And I often ask him when he’s whinging about something that is, that’s really interesting. How is that working for you?
Jonathan Smith 20:08
Yeah, so and then the other thing is, I’m pretty clear that I want to live, I wanted to build a company of one. So there’s this book called company of one, I wanted to create a small, so a company of one basically says doesn’t mean only one person, but it means a small business that is highly profitable, with the, you know, where you’re surrounded by people and their unique abilities. So you have a unique team. And you have a lot of fun together, and you all get to do what you’re, you know, is the best use as our, as opposed to, you know, I have 147 people, and 5050 of them didn’t want to show up to work today. What’s it like to try to get them to do whatever, you know, answer the phones at the call center, or whatever, whatever it is that they’re doing. So we all have, I mean, I intentionally built the life that I have. So I would encourage others to do the same.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 21:04
But it’s not to say that you can’t have a large business and still not, you know, and be able to take that time off and do things that you want to do. Because in theory, the business is running well. And you’ve got the right people doing the right models, and they are, you know, sharing the same core values on the same journey with you, then it is possible to really delegate elevate yourself out of the day to day business, right?
Jonathan Smith 21:28
You’re gonna ask my clients that spend, you know, I live in Florida now and have businesses here or, you know, I was on one of my clients level 10 meetings, and he was like, well, one of my partners quit while I was in Aruba. And you didn’t tell me? They were like, well, we didn’t need to tell you we had handled. So why do we need to call you and break up your vacation? Because someone decided to quit? So the reality is EOS will allow people to do that. Yep. My unique ability is not running a large enterprise. There are plenty of people who are really good at that. And then we have to just be very intentional about what is it that you, you know, we say, us, as USA for managers, we help you get what you want from your business. We don’t define what that is.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 22:14
So, yeah, so getting that clarity is really important. What do you actually really want from your business? And then how do you design that business around? What you want? Exactly. Nice. Okay, so I was asked the EOS implementer to come on here. This, what was your favorite us tool? Do you have a favorite one that?
Jonathan Smith 22:34
I mean, my favorite tools, the tool that works? Yeah, I love being able to sort of have a toolbox and be like, Oh, I have a I have this toolbox. And I get to choose which tool I need to apply for the team at the time they need it. I don’t know if I ever thought about favorite tool, because I think I don’t, I don’t necessarily bias myself to one or the other. I mean, my favorite tool is like when people use core values well, and I walk into an into, like, I walked into one of my clients, and they had 2000 employees. And he said, it was five o’clock in the morning. And I went to see the the operations, you know, the CFO and at his desk, and we’re sitting down and then he’s like, Yeah, everyone gets hot lunch on Friday. What do you mean hot lunch? Like, well, people aren’t used to having hot lunch. So we feed them on Friday. That’s just part of the deal here. And he said, I could feel something different. What’s happened instead, the core values are really working. So I really like when they work. And when we when I can see it on sort of the entry level people using it, and the entire organization being galvanized around it. I mean, it’s pretty, pretty awesome. So I say our job is to help build a high performance team. And that’s one of the key components to build high performance teams.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 23:54
Absolutely. So why would people even consider using EOS? What do you think the biggest challenges are that people face when they come to you and say, Hey, Jonathan, can you help us out?
Jonathan Smith 24:07
We have those back restorations. So, you know, they have issues with people, so they haven’t fired people or they have the wrong people hanging around or in the wrong seats. Especially in these family businesses, right? They’ve been here and you’re like, Oh, you’re putting up with the family member because you want it you want to be able to have Thanksgiving with you know, you wouldn’t want to tell them something that was true. Or at least your truth. There’s not enough profit. I’m like, why are you doing that business? I don’t understand, like you’re doing all this effort to get paid 150 days from now and they’re always going to cut you on on what what you’re getting paid. Do a different business, that’s better. process, you know, why are your processes not working? You know, they’re not actually it’s not the documented part. That’s the hard part. It’s the follow by all How Do I Get everyone following it? It’s just a process. So, and then, you know, we’ve tried lots of things, you know, they like, oh, I tried all these things and nothing seems to work. You know, we I see it all all the time. And, you know, smart. The other thing is they don’t have anyone else to talk to. So, you know, they feel very lonely YPO or other peer groups are helpful. And other, you know, coaches are helpful. But you know, it’s nice to have, you know, the best DLs implementers are trusted advisors with their clients, true trusted advisors. So yeah..
Debra Chantry-Taylor 25:34
And there’s that consistency is I mean, I’m a big believer in AEO, we do a lot of sponsorship of the Oh, and YPO. And having a family business association, as well as having a peer group is really, really important. But we always say there’s three things that you need as the peer group, you need a coach or a mentor, and then you need an operating system. And I think once you’ve got those three things, as a business owner, that feeling of loneliness goes away, because I know when I was, I’ve had other businesses before I went into EOS. And, you know, it’s can be really lonely at the top when you’ve got a husband who works a normal nine to five job and doesn’t understand what running businesses like and you can’t talk to your staff about some of those bigger issues and challenges that you’re having. It makes sense to have people around, you can actually take you through that journey.
Jonathan Smith 26:17
Yeah, and I wrote that book called optimized for growth that actually built that model model within the book, because I had seen it with my clients. And then I use I wrote the book with the intent of actually being able to promote EOS to vistage chairs. Oh, yeah. The idea was, well, because I kept getting when I, when I kept meeting with them was like, Are you competitive with us? It was before, you know, Gino said, we were breaking up concrete at the time. Like no one knows what this is. So breaking up concrete. So we were having a bunch of conversations, and people didn’t know us with the brand the way it is today. So that’s why I wrote that book, optimize for growth, optimize./
Debra Chantry-Taylor 26:55
For growth and have a look, I haven’t seen that. So that’s awesome. It’s interesting, because I think that obviously your revenue in the US we’re EOS is very, very well recognized. Not so much here in New Zealand. In fact, if you Google Eos, you get things like lipsticks, cameras, shoes, and everything other than an Entrepreneurial Operating System. So I often have to take the time to explain what it really is. If you had to explain EOS in two sentences, what would you say?
Jonathan Smith 27:23
I say EOS is a strategy execution system that helps you get what you want from your business. And we do three things we say vision, traction, healthy vision, where we’re going five to 10 years from now, traction, what are you doing in the next 90 days to get you towards that vision and healthy? How do we do two things in healthy organizational clarity, and then have all the difficult conversations that you’ve been avoiding? If you’re in our room, you’re not going to be able to avoid them? I’m gonna call them out. And we’re going to work through.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 27:59
Beautiful, well said thank you. Okay, so I’m going to I’ve got, I’ve got a whole range of things from you already. So I mean, there’s, you know, changing the way that you actually ask questions seems like the reason that you’re asking that. I’ve got the book, obviously, that Chris Voss wrote, which has never split the difference, amazing book for reading around facilitation skills, optimized for growth that didn’t realize you had a book, I apologize, Jonathan, but I’m looking forward to reading that now. What are the three kind of top tips or tools you would give to listeners so they can go away and do something practical from this conversation?
Jonathan Smith 28:31
Number one, stay curious. So when I say stay curious, I mean, when you are frustrated, and you want to tell someone, I’m right, you’re wrong. There’s a reason that they’re in fact, frustrated. And if you can stay curious and be open minded. You have a better chance to come come out with better outcome. Number two, yep. Learn. So there’s five levels of listening. So listening for the just like, you know, it’s like me talking to you and going like listening to my phone and being like, yeah, oh, I heard what you said. That’s right. Okay. Listening to respond. We see this in session all the time. That’s someone who like leans in is like me, and then they don’t even respond to what the other person they’re just responding but has nothing to do with maybe what the other person said. The goal is to listen, for logic, you need to listen for the logic of what the other person is having said So there’s five levels of listening. So it’s listening for the just listening for to respond. You don’t want to be an either of them. listening for logic is where you can actually say, then listening for emotion. So like, you can’t even you can’t stay in listening for emotion, but you can hear it and sort of like doing doing yoga and staying focusing on your breath. And then listening for their point of view. You don’t have to agree with their point of view, but in the highest level of bliss. You will hear their point of view, even if you disagree with it, at least you could understand what their point of view is. So, in that case, I’m saying, listen for logic, try to stay in listening for logic, and try to avoid listening for listening to respond. The third thing I would say as EOS is simple, but it’s not easy. So, and it takes time, and you need to be patient with it, and realize that it took you a long time to get here. EOS is a way of life. It’s not, it’s not like a certificate put on the wall. So be patient with yourselves and focus on the game that you’re achieving, not the gap that you haven’t achieved yet.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 30:49
Dan Sullivan, okay. Cool. Okay, great. Thank you so much. That’s been really amazing. In terms of the type of clients that you would like to work with, what do they look like?
Jonathan Smith 31:03
My I like clients that are they tend to be very large. With complex businesses, complex people issues, tend to be like 25 to $500 million in revenue. So they tend to work with bigger ones. And in industries like healthcare roll ups, financial services, background in Wall Street, and hedge funds and private equity. And then professional services. That’s just what we happen to have in New York. So those are the those are the things that I tend to work on.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 31:37
Nice. Okay. And if people want to get in contact with you, how did they best do that?
Jonathan Smith 31:40
So I have an interesting URL. So my, my name is Jonathan B. Smith, and my, my email addresses J. B. S, Juliet, bravo, Sierra, JBS at O, the letter o, the number four g.com. Au 4g dot com. So that’s optimized for growth. That’s the book. So I wrote. Yep. Yep. That’s the best way to get a hold of me.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 32:06
That is fantastic. Thank you so much. I usually asked us at the beginning, but I’m going to ask it right at the end, because I’ve picked up on little bits and pieces. I heard Sheryl Sandberg, if at all, but it’s just I’ve kind of come up with your journey. You’ve had an amazing journey. What do you think you’re most proud of professionally and personally.
Jonathan Smith 32:24
I’m proud that every day I got to go help people, make their businesses better and engage in the world and hopefully make it a little bit better place. So nothing specific that I’ve done. But the fact that I have built this amazing practice, I say that I’m like a world famous doctor, when people explain when they asked me what I do. And I’m like, I’m like a business doctor. So I’m a world famous business doctor, and people fly all over the world to come see me to fix their businesses. So it’s a pretty amazing and privileged place to be and I’m just have lots of gratitude for that.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 32:57
And I’m very grateful that you took the time to come and talk to me today because I’ve thoroughly enjoyed a sort of learning from you’re getting to know you a bit better. And particularly understanding that you know that you have got all these amazing skills that we can tap into and, and you so thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, your knowledge, and I look forward to hopefully seeing you in Dallas.
Jonathan Smith 33:18
I’m going to be seeing in Dallas. Sounds like you’re coming.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 33:22
That’s good. Thank you very much.
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Debra Chantry-Taylor
Certified EOS Implementer | Entrepreneurial Leadership & Business Coach | Business Owner
#betterbusinessbetterlife #entrepreneur #leadership #eosimplementer #professionaleosimplementer #entrepreneurialbusinesscoach
Certified EOS Implementer New Zealand
Certified EOS Implementer Australia
Certified EOS Implementer UK
Certified EOS Implementer NZ
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
eos, implementer, people, business, black swan, clients, amazing, facilitation, gino, chris, jonathan, book, work, skills, core values, tyler, coach, work life balance, love, middle east
Debra Chantry-Taylor 00:00
Good morning and welcome to another edition of better business better life. Today I’m pretty excited because I am being joined by Jonathan v. Smith, who is over in a city that is on my bucket list. So New York City.
Jonathan Smith 00:20
Expert EOS implementer means I’ve done over 500 sessions with clients with a certain quality score. I know it’s a 500 sessions with clients. So I’ve done like 1200 sessions with clients at this point. I mean, my favorite tools, my favorite tools, the tool that works at the time, because I love being able to sort of have a toolbox and be like, Oh, I have, I have this toolbox. And I get to choose which tool I need to apply for the team at the time they need it.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 01:01
Jonathan is an entrepreneur, he is an expert, EOS implementer. And also a negotiation coach. So quite a bit of experience there with Jonathan, welcome to the show. Jonathan. lovely to have you.
Jonathan Smith 01:11
Thanks, Debra. Happy to be here.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 01:14
Yeah, I’m super excited. We always have a little bit of a chat before we come on and just hearing your experience. I mean, you started as Gina Whitman seconds client. So I’m going to sitting here at a bit of a fangirl moment right now kind of go well, I’ve got somebody who knows data from the beginning. But tell us a bit about your story. And how did you get to meet Dizzy Gino Wickman?
Jonathan Smith 01:33
Well, I actually met Gino at an elf e o event. So the Entrepreneurs Organization, he and I were both in the Entrepreneurs Organization in Detroit, and he had just sold his business with his dad and there was some guy bouncing around. We were at a bar and he was bouncing around the bar like super high energy. I’m like, Who’s that guy? I want to meet that guy. So I ended up introducing myself. Gina was trying to figure out what he was going to do on his next gig. It wasn’t called EOS. At that time, I was called virtual CEO. And so I got to see EOS before it became the world famous EOS.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 02:15
That is amazing. Yeah. Okay. And so this man that was bouncing, like imagine Judo bouncing around the bar. You engaged with him? What were you doing at that time? Like why? Why did Were you even interested in speaking with him?
Jonathan Smith 02:28
Well, I just wanted to meet him because he seemed like a cool guy with like, almost like a halo on his head. That wasn’t a fanboy conversation. It was literally he came in like a ball of energy. And so we talked to him, and we were having some challenges in our business at the time, and four partners, and we couldn’t seem to quite get along and make enough money and make the business work. And Gino said, I’m doing this coaching, why don’t you come and try this coaching with me. So for $1,500 a day, we paid Gino to come in and he practiced on us. And there was no no EOS processor.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 03:05
Yeah, so he was sort of like his, you know, when we first started as a US implementers we always have a couple of clients that we kind of practice on your Geno’s practice client,
Jonathan Smith 03:13
On his practice client, and we’re still friends. So that’s that’s something
Debra Chantry-Taylor 03:18
That is wonderful. So that business, he was saying you had four partners was that family, non family? How did those four partners come together?
Jonathan Smith 03:27
Three family members. So my brother Tyler, my cousin, Jeremy, and third party partner named les ROM. So and then myself? Sure.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 03:36
And so Gino came in? What did he discover was the real issue with you?
Jonathan Smith 03:43
Well, if you read page 53 attraction, he talks about how we had different core values. So we are the example of having different core values and the business falling apart because we wanted different things from our lie. And
Debra Chantry-Taylor 03:57
that must have been a wee bit of a revelation for you. Because I bet you’re at that point, you’re wondering, you know, why is this not working out? And then suddenly you have the the answer, if you like,
Jonathan Smith 04:06
we were just grateful to have an answer was a lot of it was really painful to try and figure it out ourselves and say, we’re smart. Why can’t we figure this out? Why is it so difficult, why it’s so hard to get projects out and make money and so it was really nice to have, you know, help us get some clarity there.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 04:22
So I’m curious. And with that sort of sharing, I mean, I only share what you can share, I suppose what actually happened with that business. In the end.
Jonathan Smith 04:29
I left. I taught myself how to do search engine optimization. So in like 1999, I taught myself to do search engine optimization. By 2003. I had I had an offer from Sheryl Sandberg at Google to come work for her and had lunch with Eric Schmidt and spoke to 400 engineers I had sort of taught myself how to do search engine optimization, so I went and did that. And the business sort of clipped along less kept the business my cousin Jeremy left the Business, he ultimately went into the financial services business and recently sold that business to to a large aggregator. My brother Tyler became the CIO at ELS and I went and worked with my dad in the security business, and then ultimately came back from the Middle East. And I decided I didn’t want to be on long haul flights anymore and became an implementer. So in 2013 2013, so
Debra Chantry-Taylor 05:25
1010 years ago, and so why did you decide to become an implementer?
Jonathan Smith 05:32
Well, I didn’t want to work for anyone else. And I don’t think I was qualified to work for anyone else, that sort of joke. But I came back having done some pretty amazing things in the Middle East, sold a couple 100 million dollars worth of projects there, met with the royal families doing work for them coming home to get a job, but just didn’t seem to be on the, in the cards for me, Tyler said to me, oh, pain is doing really well. And, you know, Mark, Mark was doing really well at the time and Mark winters. And so he said, You totally can do this. You’re an entrepreneur, you know how to sell, you understand the system, you just don’t have a network domestically. So he encouraged me to do it. And you know that going back to the theme of your podcast, like, I only had, like $10,000 left in the bank after having saved a ton of money, and it was time to go figure out something and so I grounded out for 18 months to go figure out how to make it work. And my tried to quit four or five times before that my brother Tyler kept me on the straight and narrow. So thank you.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 06:37
Tyler. Because now you’re an expert, US implementer which means for those who don’t know what is an expert, EOS implementer
Jonathan Smith 06:43
Expert EOS implementer means I’ve done over 500 sessions with clients with a certain quality score. I know it’s a 500 sessions with clients. So I’ve done like 1200 sessions with clients at this point.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 06:57
Wow. That’s amazing. I know. You said you done 150 implementations. So what was it about in the business that you’re working in with your your brothers in your other shareholder? You It was obviously about having core values and making sure you’re on the same page? What do you what do you say now has been the sort of the the revolutionary thing of Eos for you when you’re working with other businesses? What do you think is the thing that most makes the most difference?
Jonathan Smith 07:24
Well, I love that we have a system that we can start with. So I call it structured flexibility. EOS gives me structure as an entrepreneur to engage with a business as opposed to doing some kind of custom consulting gig every single time. And then it engages me in conversations with such such a wide array of entrepreneurs, that I have really amazing experience that I can share across clients, because for the most part, they’re not competitive. Generally, I’ll conflict myself out if I’m with a client who I feel is in any way competitive, I don’t want to feel like I would compromise. You know, my anyone feel like I’m compromising them. And so we have this great system markets really well. I know it really well like the back of my hand. And then as I told you, I also work with Chris boss from never split the difference. And I’ve taught myself or at least just engaged in facilitation. So EQ facilitation, facilitation around like, academically, what does it mean? And then with Chris, hostage negotiation, which is just another form of Kingdom communication and facilitation, we call it tactical empathy. So being able to get in the room with the right people who trust me, and then have really having really difficult conversations and solving really difficult problems, and helping them create self managing businesses is a it’s a who it is.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 08:49
Yeah, and I configure, I’m not an expert by any means I’m a certified as well. But I’ve certainly love the journey so far. And I think one of the things that people often say though, you know, EOS is its it is a framework, it is a structure. So therefore, you know, do you end up having a cookie cutter solution? How would you answer that?
Jonathan Smith 09:09
I believe in structured flexibility, so I am not the one who has a cookie cutter solution. I Gino says I am his most visionary implementer. So okay, I do my best to follow the agenda. But you guys, my facilitation coach likes to say you can’t take a team where they don’t want to go. So you have to deliver them what they need at the time that they need it. And Mark O’Donnell, our partners, marks the visionary out of us now. And sometimes I would fill in for him or vice versa. And the clients were always amazed at how we ended up in the same place and we took a different path in a session together. So I think that’s what’s important that we do the best we can to follow the 15% of Eos that needs to be completely restructured and then the rest is facilitation. A Have you focus on.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 10:02
That I agree completely, I think the end of the day, it’s very much about the structure provides you with a framework to achieve the right outcomes. But how you get there, I’ve always find it’s very, very different with every client that I work with, you know, we always start at the same time and kind of finish more or less around the same time. And we get the same sort of outcomes, but there can be very, very different pathways to get there. And that’s really down to that facilitation.
Jonathan Smith 10:24
And it feels oftentimes, like you’re gonna crash the plane during the day, you’re like, I’m not sure how we’re gonna get from here to the end of the day, but miraculously, it happens most of
Debra Chantry-Taylor 10:35
the time. Yeah, that is interesting, isn’t it? I must admit, I’ve, in the early days, you know, I think I was probably a lot more sort of, you know, we’ve got to be, we’ve got it, we’ve got some as easy as implementers, we’ve got some guidelines around, you know, what each section should take. And I used to get really nervous, because this is supposed to take half an hour, we’ve already been at it for an hour. But if, as a good facilitator, you always get there in the end, and it’s just about adjusting to what’s in the room.
Jonathan Smith 10:59
You’re familiar, a lot of adjusting.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 11:01
And having those uncomfortable conversations. I love that. I mean, I might the elephant is my favorite kind of tool if you like. So tell me a little about the negociation stuff. Because that never split the difference. That book was a bit of an eye opener for me. I remember reading it probably about a year ago now. And it was like, Wow, this this opened my eyes to a different way of thinking about things. So how did you meet Chris? How did you get involved? And what is it that that has taught you?
Jonathan Smith 11:28
So I lived in DC, when I came back from the Middle East. I had been in Abu Dhabi and I moved back to the Middle East. There’s a business club in DC called the tower club. It is the business club that everyone sort of goes to for breakfast. So if you’re going to have a meeting, you’re like, oh, let’s just go meet at the tower club. I don’t have anywhere to go or anything to do. So I joined the tower club, and I go to breakfast at the tower club. And there was a guy named said at the tower club, who sort of held the court there every morning. And he goes, Chris, this is Jonathan. Jonathan, this is Chris, you should talk. So Chris talking. He had a need to help. He needed help with negotiating something in the Middle East getting paid, he wasn’t getting paid. And he wanted to know how things work. I happen to actually have the intelligence for how the how things worked in the Middle East or in UAE better than he did. I helped him with that. And I became friends. He told me he was writing a book. I’m like, Yeah, you and everybody else are writing a book. That book ended up being never split the difference which he wrote with tall rods, who in tall is world famous and the best at what he does in the business. And Chris is the best at what he does in the business. And then I helped Chris get his first talk with a yellow New Jersey and then another talk with YPO. And then Chris is super hard worker. So he just has been on a plane promoting the book, and the Black Swan group and tactical empathy, since 2000, and I don’t know 15 Or something like that. And I was their implementer. So I often say I’m the architect on the business architect for the business, whereas Chris is he’s our spokesmodel. He’s the best guy on on that camera. He loves me on the camera and does amazing things. And I helped architect the business. And in the process of hanging out with him and his son, Brandon and the team at the Black Swan group. I was like this is fascinating. I want to learn how these skills work. So I just started learning the skills and it’s gotten to the point where I am now a certified Black Swan coach. I am in the process of building an AI bot that helps train people in the black swan skills. I am in fact doing a black swan training at our EOS annual conference in Dallas that will be sort of a combination of Eos and Black Swan and the idea is going to teach you how to do better business development. I’m going to teach you how to facilitate better and then I’m going to teach you how to raise your fees using the black swan skills to negotiate so there’ll be 100 implementers there at the at the event and it’s just being with Chris has been an amazing run for me we it’s one of those things that just sort of like my relationship with Gino, it just works for both of us. And we and we work really well together.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 14:19
Okay, now we talked about Dallas before we got on this. This podcast. I said I wasn’t sure if I was going I think he might have just changed my mind. Yeah, that’s great. Okay, so the the combination of the Black Swan training and the Eos, what does that give you in terms of working with clients? Do you think?
Jonathan Smith 14:42
I have skills in the room that when things get really hot, no one else has those skills. Chris has those skills, but he doesn’t have the US skills. And Derek who’s our head coach at black swan has those skills. They’re amazing hostage negotiators. But I’m the hostage so they’re hostage negotiators with Hundreds of successful hostage negotiations. I am a business coach with hundreds of successful business, hostage negotiations. So I can be in the room and see things now. And I call things out in a way that I never did when I was starting. So when someone asks a question, and that’s really interesting, what are they saying? So like, instead of saying, Why did you say that? On that analysis, I’ll now label it and go, seems like there’s a reason you’re asking dynamic silence, wait for them to respond. Three seconds later, they’ll tell you, Oh, that person’s actually needs to get fired, or I’m upset and I need to leave or I don’t know, whatever the issue is, whatever your elephant that you’re throwing at me, is that they’ll tell me that, but using tactical empathy. The issue is it’s it’s another language, the only way to learn is by doing immersion, and immersion being literally using the skills in first we say using the skills as in low stakes practice, and then ultimately being able to use of skills in high stakes.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 16:17
I do like that. It’s amazing how the subtlety of words can make such a huge difference, isn’t it?
Jonathan Smith 16:24
Like a Jedi mind trick? It’s amazing. Like, you’re like, how did that work? That way? I would have upset them. If I said, Why did you ask? And when I say seems like there’s a reason you’re asking. They melt and tell me? Yeah,
Debra Chantry-Taylor 16:36
I’ve written that down. I think that’s really important since otherwise, you’re asking, I was talking to somebody yesterday on the podcast, and she had another sort of way of having people answer questions in different way. And I just yeah, as I said, it’s it can be very, very subtle, but just having that empathy, changing the words that you use, rather than triggering triggering somebody you’re actually creating them to, and you’re causing them to open up. So mad is not waking this morning.
Jonathan Smith 17:00
Well, we in my mantras, you may know is Stay curious. So you need to stay curious, because the way they’re acting has nothing to do with me. Something’s going on for them. What’s the Black Swan? What’s behind that behavior? And as an EOS implementer and Black Swan coach, what’s important is that we stay curious. And we don’t take it personally. Yeah, there’s sometimes some pretty hot, hot issues we’re dealing with. Yeah,
Debra Chantry-Taylor 17:29
Absolutely. I think is probably why I enjoy being an EOS implementer as I was also very, very curious child. And I’m very, very good at sort of, you know, asking questions and trying to get to the root cause of certain things. I think I enjoy that part of it.
Jonathan Smith 17:43
Well, we’re lucky we get to learn from so many smart people.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 17:48
And it’s not really a job as it is something that we talk about the EOS life. I think in the beginning, when I first saw that whole EOS life, I thought that sounds really amazing. And I think now, what, three and a half years in almost four years, and I am living that EOS life, it’s doing what I love with people, I love getting to make a huge difference. And I’m finding time to pursue other passions. Finally, which took me a long time to actually do.
Jonathan Smith 18:11
Well, you certainly look happy. Oh,
Debra Chantry-Taylor 18:13
I Yeah, I’d say I love what I do, which is why I’m here on the weekend doing a podcast because I actually enjoy it. But and it’s funny because people always say, Oh, this whole work life balance, I have a different way of viewing it now. So I thought work life balance meant that you know, you kind of work nine to five ish and then handle this time. But actually, it’s about what works for you. And for me, I’m in here on a Saturday morning doing a couple of hours of podcasting. But then I’ll probably take some time off on Tuesday and go do something else that I want to do. Because that works for me timing wise. So I think the whole work life balance is an interesting concept. Particular when you love what you do,
Jonathan Smith 18:47
I say that my my sister knows she calls me an outdoor cat. She’s like, I don’t want too many parameters. I’m like, Don’t put me to scheduled. I want some time in between, I want to be able to walk on the street and have a call. Again, I didn’t want to be on Zoom. This week. I didn’t have any session next week, I have four. So just the way it’s a nice way to live life and talk to my brother on Monday, one of my brothers and I’m like, Oh, I don’t have to work today. He’s like, that must be nice. I’m like, what didn’t mean I didn’t work at all. It just means I don’t have to go to an office. And I didn’t have to be with clients that day.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 19:23
Yeah. So one of the things I’m going to ask you as an expert, some of us and one of the things I hear a lot is like, oh, it’s easy for you to say that, Debra, because you know, you run a small practice and you a couple of people working in that and you can you know, if you take a day off, it doesn’t matter. I’ve got a big business that’s got 140 staff, you know, how’s that going to work for me? How would you answer? Well,
Jonathan Smith 19:44
I mean, I would just like the you know, the question is, how’s that working for you? Know, that’s what I would ask them that’s a calibrated question. It’s open ended question and just say how’s that working for you?
Debra Chantry-Taylor 19:56
And then my husband is listening to this podcast. He’s gonna be giggling to himself because that is my I have a question for people is that how’s that working for you? And I often ask him when he’s whinging about something that is, that’s really interesting. How is that working for you?
Jonathan Smith 20:08
Yeah, so and then the other thing is, I’m pretty clear that I want to live, I wanted to build a company of one. So there’s this book called company of one, I wanted to create a small, so a company of one basically says doesn’t mean only one person, but it means a small business that is highly profitable, with the, you know, where you’re surrounded by people and their unique abilities. So you have a unique team. And you have a lot of fun together, and you all get to do what you’re, you know, is the best use as our, as opposed to, you know, I have 147 people, and 5050 of them didn’t want to show up to work today. What’s it like to try to get them to do whatever, you know, answer the phones at the call center, or whatever, whatever it is that they’re doing. So we all have, I mean, I intentionally built the life that I have. So I would encourage others to do the same.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 21:04
But it’s not to say that you can’t have a large business and still not, you know, and be able to take that time off and do things that you want to do. Because in theory, the business is running well. And you’ve got the right people doing the right models, and they are, you know, sharing the same core values on the same journey with you, then it is possible to really delegate elevate yourself out of the day to day business, right?
Jonathan Smith 21:28
You’re gonna ask my clients that spend, you know, I live in Florida now and have businesses here or, you know, I was on one of my clients level 10 meetings, and he was like, well, one of my partners quit while I was in Aruba. And you didn’t tell me? They were like, well, we didn’t need to tell you we had handled. So why do we need to call you and break up your vacation? Because someone decided to quit? So the reality is EOS will allow people to do that. Yep. My unique ability is not running a large enterprise. There are plenty of people who are really good at that. And then we have to just be very intentional about what is it that you, you know, we say, us, as USA for managers, we help you get what you want from your business. We don’t define what that is.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 22:14
So, yeah, so getting that clarity is really important. What do you actually really want from your business? And then how do you design that business around? What you want? Exactly. Nice. Okay, so I was asked the EOS implementer to come on here. This, what was your favorite us tool? Do you have a favorite one that?
Jonathan Smith 22:34
I mean, my favorite tools, the tool that works? Yeah, I love being able to sort of have a toolbox and be like, Oh, I have a I have this toolbox. And I get to choose which tool I need to apply for the team at the time they need it. I don’t know if I ever thought about favorite tool, because I think I don’t, I don’t necessarily bias myself to one or the other. I mean, my favorite tool is like when people use core values well, and I walk into an into, like, I walked into one of my clients, and they had 2000 employees. And he said, it was five o’clock in the morning. And I went to see the the operations, you know, the CFO and at his desk, and we’re sitting down and then he’s like, Yeah, everyone gets hot lunch on Friday. What do you mean hot lunch? Like, well, people aren’t used to having hot lunch. So we feed them on Friday. That’s just part of the deal here. And he said, I could feel something different. What’s happened instead, the core values are really working. So I really like when they work. And when we when I can see it on sort of the entry level people using it, and the entire organization being galvanized around it. I mean, it’s pretty, pretty awesome. So I say our job is to help build a high performance team. And that’s one of the key components to build high performance teams.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 23:54
Absolutely. So why would people even consider using EOS? What do you think the biggest challenges are that people face when they come to you and say, Hey, Jonathan, can you help us out?
Jonathan Smith 24:07
We have those back restorations. So, you know, they have issues with people, so they haven’t fired people or they have the wrong people hanging around or in the wrong seats. Especially in these family businesses, right? They’ve been here and you’re like, Oh, you’re putting up with the family member because you want it you want to be able to have Thanksgiving with you know, you wouldn’t want to tell them something that was true. Or at least your truth. There’s not enough profit. I’m like, why are you doing that business? I don’t understand, like you’re doing all this effort to get paid 150 days from now and they’re always going to cut you on on what what you’re getting paid. Do a different business, that’s better. process, you know, why are your processes not working? You know, they’re not actually it’s not the documented part. That’s the hard part. It’s the follow by all How Do I Get everyone following it? It’s just a process. So, and then, you know, we’ve tried lots of things, you know, they like, oh, I tried all these things and nothing seems to work. You know, we I see it all all the time. And, you know, smart. The other thing is they don’t have anyone else to talk to. So, you know, they feel very lonely YPO or other peer groups are helpful. And other, you know, coaches are helpful. But you know, it’s nice to have, you know, the best DLs implementers are trusted advisors with their clients, true trusted advisors. So yeah..
Debra Chantry-Taylor 25:34
And there’s that consistency is I mean, I’m a big believer in AEO, we do a lot of sponsorship of the Oh, and YPO. And having a family business association, as well as having a peer group is really, really important. But we always say there’s three things that you need as the peer group, you need a coach or a mentor, and then you need an operating system. And I think once you’ve got those three things, as a business owner, that feeling of loneliness goes away, because I know when I was, I’ve had other businesses before I went into EOS. And, you know, it’s can be really lonely at the top when you’ve got a husband who works a normal nine to five job and doesn’t understand what running businesses like and you can’t talk to your staff about some of those bigger issues and challenges that you’re having. It makes sense to have people around, you can actually take you through that journey.
Jonathan Smith 26:17
Yeah, and I wrote that book called optimized for growth that actually built that model model within the book, because I had seen it with my clients. And then I use I wrote the book with the intent of actually being able to promote EOS to vistage chairs. Oh, yeah. The idea was, well, because I kept getting when I, when I kept meeting with them was like, Are you competitive with us? It was before, you know, Gino said, we were breaking up concrete at the time. Like no one knows what this is. So breaking up concrete. So we were having a bunch of conversations, and people didn’t know us with the brand the way it is today. So that’s why I wrote that book, optimize for growth, optimize./
Debra Chantry-Taylor 26:55
For growth and have a look, I haven’t seen that. So that’s awesome. It’s interesting, because I think that obviously your revenue in the US we’re EOS is very, very well recognized. Not so much here in New Zealand. In fact, if you Google Eos, you get things like lipsticks, cameras, shoes, and everything other than an Entrepreneurial Operating System. So I often have to take the time to explain what it really is. If you had to explain EOS in two sentences, what would you say?
Jonathan Smith 27:23
I say EOS is a strategy execution system that helps you get what you want from your business. And we do three things we say vision, traction, healthy vision, where we’re going five to 10 years from now, traction, what are you doing in the next 90 days to get you towards that vision and healthy? How do we do two things in healthy organizational clarity, and then have all the difficult conversations that you’ve been avoiding? If you’re in our room, you’re not going to be able to avoid them? I’m gonna call them out. And we’re going to work through.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 27:59
Beautiful, well said thank you. Okay, so I’m going to I’ve got, I’ve got a whole range of things from you already. So I mean, there’s, you know, changing the way that you actually ask questions seems like the reason that you’re asking that. I’ve got the book, obviously, that Chris Voss wrote, which has never split the difference, amazing book for reading around facilitation skills, optimized for growth that didn’t realize you had a book, I apologize, Jonathan, but I’m looking forward to reading that now. What are the three kind of top tips or tools you would give to listeners so they can go away and do something practical from this conversation?
Jonathan Smith 28:31
Number one, stay curious. So when I say stay curious, I mean, when you are frustrated, and you want to tell someone, I’m right, you’re wrong. There’s a reason that they’re in fact, frustrated. And if you can stay curious and be open minded. You have a better chance to come come out with better outcome. Number two, yep. Learn. So there’s five levels of listening. So listening for the just like, you know, it’s like me talking to you and going like listening to my phone and being like, yeah, oh, I heard what you said. That’s right. Okay. Listening to respond. We see this in session all the time. That’s someone who like leans in is like me, and then they don’t even respond to what the other person they’re just responding but has nothing to do with maybe what the other person said. The goal is to listen, for logic, you need to listen for the logic of what the other person is having said So there’s five levels of listening. So it’s listening for the just listening for to respond. You don’t want to be an either of them. listening for logic is where you can actually say, then listening for emotion. So like, you can’t even you can’t stay in listening for emotion, but you can hear it and sort of like doing doing yoga and staying focusing on your breath. And then listening for their point of view. You don’t have to agree with their point of view, but in the highest level of bliss. You will hear their point of view, even if you disagree with it, at least you could understand what their point of view is. So, in that case, I’m saying, listen for logic, try to stay in listening for logic, and try to avoid listening for listening to respond. The third thing I would say as EOS is simple, but it’s not easy. So, and it takes time, and you need to be patient with it, and realize that it took you a long time to get here. EOS is a way of life. It’s not, it’s not like a certificate put on the wall. So be patient with yourselves and focus on the game that you’re achieving, not the gap that you haven’t achieved yet.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 30:49
Dan Sullivan, okay. Cool. Okay, great. Thank you so much. That’s been really amazing. In terms of the type of clients that you would like to work with, what do they look like?
Jonathan Smith 31:03
My I like clients that are they tend to be very large. With complex businesses, complex people issues, tend to be like 25 to $500 million in revenue. So they tend to work with bigger ones. And in industries like healthcare roll ups, financial services, background in Wall Street, and hedge funds and private equity. And then professional services. That’s just what we happen to have in New York. So those are the those are the things that I tend to work on.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 31:37
Nice. Okay. And if people want to get in contact with you, how did they best do that?
Jonathan Smith 31:40
So I have an interesting URL. So my, my name is Jonathan B. Smith, and my, my email addresses J. B. S, Juliet, bravo, Sierra, JBS at O, the letter o, the number four g.com. Au 4g dot com. So that’s optimized for growth. That’s the book. So I wrote. Yep. Yep. That’s the best way to get a hold of me.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 32:06
That is fantastic. Thank you so much. I usually asked us at the beginning, but I’m going to ask it right at the end, because I’ve picked up on little bits and pieces. I heard Sheryl Sandberg, if at all, but it’s just I’ve kind of come up with your journey. You’ve had an amazing journey. What do you think you’re most proud of professionally and personally.
Jonathan Smith 32:24
I’m proud that every day I got to go help people, make their businesses better and engage in the world and hopefully make it a little bit better place. So nothing specific that I’ve done. But the fact that I have built this amazing practice, I say that I’m like a world famous doctor, when people explain when they asked me what I do. And I’m like, I’m like a business doctor. So I’m a world famous business doctor, and people fly all over the world to come see me to fix their businesses. So it’s a pretty amazing and privileged place to be and I’m just have lots of gratitude for that.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 32:57
And I’m very grateful that you took the time to come and talk to me today because I’ve thoroughly enjoyed a sort of learning from you’re getting to know you a bit better. And particularly understanding that you know that you have got all these amazing skills that we can tap into and, and you so thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, your knowledge, and I look forward to hopefully seeing you in Dallas.
Jonathan Smith 33:18
I’m going to be seeing in Dallas. Sounds like you’re coming.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 33:22
That’s good. Thank you very much.
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Debra Chantry-Taylor
Certified EOS Implementer | Entrepreneurial Leadership & Business Coach | Business Owner
#betterbusinessbetterlife #entrepreneur #leadership #eosimplementer #professionaleosimplementer #entrepreneurialbusinesscoach
Certified EOS Implementer New Zealand
Certified EOS Implementer Australia
Certified EOS Implementer UK
Certified EOS Implementer NZ
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