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Leadership Adventures with Matt Shoup: A Better Business, Better Life Chat – Episode 149

Top tips from Matt Shoup.

1. We need to provide, but you don’t get to take any of this stuff with you.

We need to provide, but you don’t get to take any of this stuff with you. So just remember when you’re in business, that, that you have an opportunity to impact lives and to make lives better for people and just put people over profit.

2. Just looking back at 20 years of growing, the businesses that we have is things take time.

This is a big thing, just looking back at 20 years of growing, the businesses that we have is things take time. And good things take time. And they don’t happen overnight. And the more and more I see culture and society progress, especially with social is you see all of this stuff where it just looks like the quick fix, you know, it’s get rich, quick, doing whatever, and it just doesn’t, it doesn’t work that way.

3. Get a mentor.

Find somebody that has been there that has done that, that you can really sit down and shoot straight with and be real with. And, you know, especially I’ll tie in kind of a fourth, but the part of getting a mentor is ask for help when you need it. And be okay standing in front of your team as the leader saying, I don’t know the answer to this question. I think we feel like we always have to have the answer all the time. And you’re not always going to and it’s totally okay to ask for help.



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Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:00

Welcome to the Better Business better life Show. I’m your podcast host, Debra Chantry-Taylor. In this podcast, I interview business owners, iOS implementers, and business experts who share with you their experiences, tips and tools to help you create not only a better business, but also a better life. At the end of each show, you will have three tips or tools that I get share that you can implement immediately into your life. If you want more information or want to get in contact, you can visit my website, Debra dot coach, that’s D B R A dot Coach, please enjoy the show. And today I am joined by Matt sharp, and I’ve been really careful to make sure I get that right. Otherwise it’s gonna make me sick on this podcast. Match is a guy that is just trying to make the world a better place. That’s what I learned from just having a quick chat to him. He’s a business owner. He’s an author. He’s a speaker, he runs a Judicial Center. He’s got all these things going on. But really, he’s just about making the world a better place. So welcome to the show, Matt.

Matt Shoup  00:55

Debra, thanks for having me. I’m super excited to connect with you today.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:58

Yes, I’m here. I’m looking forward to sharing your story with with our listeners, we had a little chat as we always do beforehand. And there’s a few stories in there isn’t that so let’s hear a little bit about you.

Matt Shoup  01:09

Yeah, you know, I grew up on the east coast of the United States in New Jersey till I was 10. And then my family moved out to Colorado. And I just remember being a troublemaker as a kid was was really brilliant in school, and they couldn’t keep me busy enough. And I got kicked out of a lot of things I got told actually to sit down and shut up and stop talking. So it’s just fun that I get to talk and speak. And that’s part of my profession.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:33

So, I think we’re kindred spirits, I think the New Zealand female version of a troublemaker, I love it. Super smart. And that was the problem. I think I was always I was bored. Yeah,

Matt Shoup  01:46

I was I was bored. And that typical, like sit down, shut up school environment, do what you’re told, I just didn’t connect with that. And nobody ever came along and saw like, Man, this kid’s creative. He’s He’s got an entrepreneurial spirit. And I found out really quickly that I did, we moved to Colorado, and I asked my parents for $200 to buy a big boom box. If you remember those big, you know, CD players that double cassette, and all my friends, their parents were just buying them for them. And they’re like, Nah, you gotta go find a way to make your own money. Listen, you cut our grass for $4 a week. So you can wait 50 weeks do the math. I go, Yep, I do the math. I go, that’s too long. How about I go cut some other neighbor’s grass. And my parents let me take the lawn mower. So my first business it’s unofficial, was cutting grass. And then in the winter in Colorado, shoveling snow. And then I would go peddle candy bars and soda out of my middle school locker. But that like that gave me such a feeling of accomplishment and certainty, and identity and just feeling good. You know, one of the things I went through growing up was a lot of bullying. So I was never confident in a lot of spaces, you know, great at school, but then I’m in trouble for doing it too fast. And then I’m getting beat up on the playground. But man, you give me something to sell, you know, and I’m selling it. So I made that money, bought that boombox, and leading into college, I worked with a college painting company, all four years of college, and learned all about residential paint contracting, and made a bunch of money doing it. And then I spent all of that money. And then I spent more than that. So I graduate college in debt. I did a semester in Spain for a study abroad semester fell in love with the country. And then I came back and I fell in love with my now wife, Emily met her in the basement of a bar and salsa night or salsa dancing. And you know, that all leads to this like really critical moment for me. I leave the painting business after college because it’s not sexy, right? It’s it’s blue collar. It’s dirty. It’s seasonal. It’s in the summer. And like the optics of it weren’t great for me. I want to go do something, you know, suit and tie business guy, Matt. So I’m going to theme bank Yeah, my mortgage Matt Ty, and I just hate Denver like I hate life every day. They’re they’re telling me what to do. It’s like school all over again, with all these rules and all these things. And I said, Hey, let me be creative in how I reach out to these people. And they’re like, Nope, you got to do it this way. So I knew that I’d be leaving, come home every day. Tell him we just how much I was just not enjoying this. And I’m plotting my escape. Right. So just coming into the bank office one Tuesday morning. And they brought in a new leadership. They brought in a new president. And he calls me into his office. I’m like, Cool, I get to meet the new president. Maybe I can share some of my creative ideas. Right? So like, literally, I remember this like it was yesterday, right? This is almost just 20 years ago, I walked in, I stick out my hand to shake and I’m standing at his desk and he’s you know, sitting here and his bankers desk, you know, big table and he doesn’t stick his hand out. And I go hey, like Nice to meet you. And he said go get all your shit. Put it in a box your fire. Oh my gosh. I’m a little fiery wild 22 Point to your idle why? What are you talking about? He said, you heard me I didn’t stutter, go get it, you’re done. And then this is this is what was really interesting is he cinches up the tie. And he’s like, maybe you should go back and do that that painting thing, you know, very in a very condescending tone. He’s like, go be a dirty painter. All right. So I grabbed my stuff, put it in the box, I flew the double single finger salute to him. And I walked out of that bank. And I remember standing there, like, I just, I remember the sun beating down on my face. And I’m like, holy cow, I don’t have money coming in. I can go do whatever I want, which was great. And I hated this play. So I’m like, that’s great. But this isn’t great. I got no money, but I can go do whatever I want. But now I gotta go tell my wife. So I’m, I’m battling. And I’m like, Man, I got 12 minutes to drive home, and tell me what happened and jump in the car. And as I close that door, I remember stepping in the parking lot into the car, closing the door, never working for somebody again, just just never going to do it. And I get to go do this business thing. Like, I know, I know. That’s what like God put in me. That’s how I’m wired. That’s how I’m built. And I said, all but what do I do? All I know how to do is paint houses. I don’t really like painting houses, but I know how to do it. So I call a couple of the painters on the way home from college painting. And I said, Hey, guys, in about a month, if you want, we’re going to be really busy. And one of the guys is gonna get fired from the bank. I told you that wasn’t gonna work out. And then I come home. And it was it was an early lunch. Emily’s like, Why are you home so early? And I said, you know, we got got let go. And it was it was a shock. But she I remember the question. She said, What are you going to do about it? And I told her, I said, we’re going to start a painting company, she says, okay, and she said, I’ve got your back. And she was working an hourly, part time job at that point. And I said, you just you just watch, we’re gonna get this thing going so big that you’re going to be able to quit this job, I’ll probably need you in the business. But her goal was to stay at home with kids and raise the kids back then. So that’s what we did. I took my last $100 and went and bought some cricket cut business cards at Kinkos. And I just went out like I did when I was 10. I knocked on doors that beat the street. And we built a multimillion dollar company in five years. I mean, it was it was awesome. Yeah.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  07:15

That is phenomenal. Yeah. I’m interested in source. You know, what, what did you learn the most about running your own business?

Matt Shoup  07:23

Through that, that, that it’s a roller coaster of ups and downs. And I think now, right 2023 Back in 2005, we didn’t have that social media where you know, everything looks sexy, everything looks glamorous, you see all of the Instagram reels of the entrepreneurs, and the fun peak of the roller coaster, right? Like those are there, those are great had many of them. But then it’s just hard there. There are times when you are at the bottom of that thing, you’re in the mud, you’re in the crap, you’re in the just the junk, and you want to give up and you don’t know what to do. And it’s confusing, and it’s scary. And I’ve just enjoyed or learned to just enjoy riding that roller coaster. And understand that some people will never understand it. And you’ve got to connect with other people that that are in that space and understand it. And then understanding where you are in that journey. And ask him you know, asking for help when you’re down here, not getting too much ego and excitement when you’re up here because it can change, you know. And then the other biggest lesson was putting people over profits. I was I was young, I was a young, aggressive I was a jerk to work for I was x X’s and O’s dollars and cents. If you work for me, you better be working. And I’m cracking that whip. And you’re just a cog in my wheel. So I learned a lot about leadership and people and figuring out where I needed to be a better person so I can make other people better, because because I wasn’t in the early days. Like I wouldn’t have been on your podcast in 2005. You wouldn’t want to talk. Okay, fair enough. I was I was absolutely fine.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  09:08

So that was a really interesting lesson, though, isn’t it? Because I find it fascinating that you told me that, that, you know, the guy at the bank was a bit of a dick to you too, right? He didn’t really respect Yeah. And then and then you went into your own business and almost kind of recreated some of the stuff that you perhaps didn’t like at the bank.

Matt Shoup  09:28

I did. I ended up I ended up being the guy that I you know, that I totally totally despised. And, you know, I think for me, that was a product of, you know, the environment that I grew up in. Because of my early days of being bullied and really needing to figure out like money on my own. I was really driven by a sense of you. I was talking to somebody about this the other day of, you know, your net worth is not your self worth. And you know, I was kind of having that wired into me as a young kid. So you know, I’m like, hey, the more I strive The more I work, the more money I make, the more people are going to accept me, right. And I just, I didn’t know how to do it. And that’s all I focused on. And you know, another big lesson, which I’d love to talk about. So I think this is really, really circles around what you do is your business will only be as healthy as you are, personally. And I think it is super important for entrepreneurs to understand their story, like if they need help, professional help, counseling, masterminds, coaching, like that stuff is huge. And that was a big part of my life that really transitioned me into a better space and business.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  10:38

Cool. So was there a particular point it was or something that happened that made you kind of go, Whoa, hold on a second, this isn’t quite working the way I thought it would?

Matt Shoup  10:45

You know, yeah, so it was always that the little things would happen. So like, why do we have a revolving door in business? how come everybody else doesn’t want to work as hard as me? Why is this person’s problem, this problem making, so as everybody else, so I’m working with a coach, I was part of Entrepreneurs Organization for for a number of years EO. And they brought in a speaker, he was he was an ex, West Point graduate, just big guy, right in your face kind of coach. And you know, he did a lot of NLP type of coaching. And I ended up working with him, our team did, and then I did individually, and I was just, you know, getting into one of my programs again, one day about how it’s everybody else’s fault. And I’m very aggressive, you know, and people will tend to shut down when I do that, but he got right back in my face. And he said, Listen, man, he goes, All I hear you saying is that you’re the common denominator of the problem. So he goes, maybe you’re the problem. You know, maybe you’re the jerk. Yes. Did you ever did you ever think about that. And that was, that was a big wake up call. So I that that moment really made me reflect on all of these little situations where I just didn’t know how to treat people based on based on where it came from, and kind of how I was treated. So yeah. And then he goes, here’s, here’s what I would suggest. And he made some suggestions. And, you know, I remember going back to the team that next day, and just saying, Hey, guys, you know, I’ve made this, I’ve made this realization, I was called out. And I’m really considering what business is going to look like if we keep doing it this way. And it’s not good. And I’m sorry. So moving forward, I’m committing to change. I call that the three C’s of changing your story. It’s part of the painted baby book. And then from there, I just went on this fun and amazing journey of personal development, coaching, therapy, masterminds, more coaching, and then pulling everybody in the company into these things, too, and doing it together. And it was amazing.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  12:44

I must admit, I was kind of pivotal in my, in my entrepreneurial career as well, I think that having those peers around you and have been challenged on things. And of course, he has a very, very similar philosophy run, actually, it’s not just about business, about business and life and make sure you look after you as a whole person. And I always say that, you know, you’ve got to have a personal coach, you’ve got to have a peer group, which is your iOS or your tech or your vestiges. And then you’ve got to have, in my opinion, an operating system for your business as well as the you know, how your business is going to operate? Yes, we’re gonna, I’m going to come back to the painted baby thing, because it’s a really I’m going to show my little story about that as well. But in terms of how did you even get involved with EO and why did you get involved with the?

Matt Shoup  13:21

Yeah, the first introduction I had to do, I was in college, college painting, and the VP of the state of Colorado, because Colorado was a million dollar division, he was able to join EO. And he took all of the college students to an event. And that was the first time I heard about it. And it was like, Hey, this is for million dollar business owners. And there’s great networking, great learning, great speakers. And we met a guy that owned a bunch of companies, and was just talking about that he was probably 3540. And on that day, I just remember I want to run a million dollar business someday. So I remember three years into the painting company. I reached out to EO and I think it was 2007. And then they’re like, now you got to do it two years in a row. I don’t know if you remember that. But they gotta you gotta you gotta do it consecutive years. So then 2008 was When? When I jumped in there.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  14:13

Okay, good. So painted baby. So this is this is an interesting, complete segue of sorts. So you have written a book called painted baby. And I was just talking to a colleague before I came on the podcast saying, I’m about to go meet with this matte guy. I got your name wrong, by the way, but anyway. And so he’s got this book called painted babies. I said, painted babies. So he Googled painted babies. And when you google painted babies, something completely different comes up. It was like, Okay, maybe I’ve got that wrong. So I had to go back and I was I was painted baby and had a look at it. But so this book is not about little girls who get dolled up and go and do pageants, something completely different rights. Tell us what the book is about. Yeah.

Matt Shoup  14:57

The premise of the book is that In life, leadership and business, we paint a picture of perfection. And that prevents true connection with people. And I learned that in business, I’m sitting at a sales appointment in 2011. I’m about to close the biggest contract of my life, it’s 20 times the size of a normal contract. And I tell you, I got really good in college painting, and after at sales, right, the old school feature benefit, objection handling, pre closing, right, all of that, and I’m Mr. sales guy, and I’m gonna go close this deal. And it’s with a client that I’ve already done business with. I mean, I know the guy, we’ve worked for him. So I’m sitting there, you know, with my fancy pen, and I present the contract, I slide it across the table, I drop the 10. And, and I’m waiting, you know, quiet and waiting for him to sign, right? It’s just, and he pushes it back, because I’m textbook, textbook sales, right? A plus five star everything. And he sends it back to me. He’s like, I’m not ready to do this. This is this is really weird, because he’s a very decisive guy. So let me let me try that either or close. So I’m trying my different clothes techniques, and he just keeps sending it back. And I go, what’s going on? This is weird. This is kind of off. And we’re back and forth. And he goes, You know what he’s he, he picks up this marketing brochure that I gave him. I said, Look, I’ve got better business bureau A plus reviews. I mean, look, your your job is right here on page seven, like, look how you know, the work is great, you know, it’s always perfect. And he’s like, cut the crap map. This house you’re about to go do work for it’s my second home. It’s my Million Dollar Baby. It’s a vacation home for him. The guy’s very well off very self made guy. And he picks this marketing brochure up. He says, this thing’s crap. And you know, and he throws it across his office. He said, Tell me about a time that you screwed up and what you did about it. And I have never been asked that question as a salesperson or a business owner before. So I go to the memory bank, and I shared a couple of stories of you know, we painted the wrong color on a house once the paint store mixed up the paint. He’s like, you know, that’s not a big deal that he goes, that happens all the time, I’m sure. And it did. And I said, Well, we painted the right color once, but we painted on the wrong house. And he kind of leans in, he’s like You painted the wrong house. They said yes, we accidentally sent our crew to a house and mixed up the streets and the addresses and we did we literally prepped an entire house that we weren’t supposed to. But but when I went to share that mistake, he leans in, and he was hooked and he was engaged. And I was like, Hey, I’m onto something right now I went a little bit bigger, a little bit more vulnerable. And I just want to close the sale, right? I’m young, I’m still young into my business. And he’s like, still not good enough. And I said, Bill, what else do you want from me? What else can I tell you? And he’s just goes, I feel like you’ve got something better? And I said, Fine. I got one for you. I’ve never told it. And I can’t believe I’m about to do this. I said we painted a baby. Okay? But if I tell you about it, you have to sign the contract and I’m still just just knucklehead old school closing guy, right? And he leans back because they will tell me tell me the story. And what happened was, was this a paint job takes about three days to do typically. And on the last day, we typically will spray with our paint spray gun, any metal doors, garage doors, entry doors to the home, and we’re working on this home in Windsor, Colorado, wonderful family. There’s a mom, she has a nine month old baby she would come out every day to greet the painters bring them drinks, bring them snacks. Oh, that’s beautiful. I love how the paint jobs coming together. And we’re literally almost buckled up and finished up with this job. And I’m not on the job site. I’m 20 minutes away doing a bank deposit and my phone rings and it starts ringing and it keeps ringing and I’m shutting it off and putting it in my pocket. And I come out of the bank I missed about 10 calls from my patrons names roll. Like I better call them back really quick and I call him back he is screaming on the other end of the line. So I hear that well who speaks both English and Spanish is my time to come quick. Oh my gosh, you finally answer the phone and and then I hear a woman screaming in a baby crying. And he’s like methane and methane with a pig in the boom and the baby I don’t know Come quick. I picked the baby and he hangs up the phone hangs up the phone. And the last thing now yeah, I’m laughing now But I’m like what what it what just happened? What does everything so I jumped in the car I never drove so fast from from one town to another and I pull up and his brother. blas is standing at the truck just folding up drop cloths covered in black semi gloss paint. There’s a trail of paint going up the driveway through the back gate and I go I come in and I just follow the trail and rolls down on his hands and knees the scrubbing paint off of the flagstone it’s in the grass, the fence, the barbecue grill that deck and it splattered all over the door he was supposed to paint so he’s literally about to pull the trigger of a spray gun and we have This one in a million jam, where the gun jammed. But then there was also a little fitting that was just off kilter. And when he pulled that trigger, the pressure came through paint exploded everywhere. And Mama’s standing right there with bait, right, right behind. Right behind. So yeah, we painted a baby. So I’m back to the sales appointment. Now I’m back with Bill. And he’s, he’s just like, what? So what happened, he’s hooked. He’s wanting to know about the drama and the plates and, and, you know, I’ve built up this, the story and the mom and the baby and blas and roll and he wanted to know what happened. So I told them what happened. I mean, we took ownership of it, we had to clean up, we had to make sure the baby was okay. And the baby was okay.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  20:44

How was the baby?

Matt Shoup  20:45

Yeah, well, let me tell ya. So I’ve got right here. So no, no babies were harmed in the making of the book, or the story. You know, it just the paint, the paint didn’t get, you know, the baby’s eyes or anything like that. But but got everywhere. So what I let Bill know is like, listen, we handled it, that was a bad moment, this is what we did. And if this was to happen on your job, this is what we would do. And you could see, you know, the, the interest in the story turned into this, you know, internal, he’s, he’s putting himself there. And he goes, Okay, I can deal with that. And I said, So Bill, that’s what I got for you. I don’t know what else to tell you. I’m all out of closes. I’m all out of everything. I love you. I’ve done business with you for a long time. And you just let me know what you want to do. I’m just stumped. And he says, boom, sticks the handout. You’re the kind of guy want to do business with like, that’s the kind of guy that I was waiting to have show up. And I realized in that moment that that I had never done that. It was always the shiny marketing brochure. And he really made me realize that yeah, and and that’s important, right? Like, you want to have that you want to have credentials. But there’s a way where humans connect, when one person decides to go first and be vulnerable, and say, you know, here’s where I look all polished and great. But man, I just had a really bad incident happen in this is where my integrity was on the line. If I say I’m an honest company, and I’m going to do the right thing, but I’ve never been given an opportunity to not do the right thing, then it doesn’t show that with a five star review. You know, if I say hey, if we screw something up, we’re gonna fix it. We had 1000s of dollars of screw up sitting right there on that job site. And we did. So yes, that was that was a wake up call for me. And then I decided to go out, I said, You know what, I’m gonna there’s something going on here. I’m gonna go share this story, in sales appointments. And then we taught the team how to do it. And then we did a big marketing campaign. And then that’s, that’s my daughter on the cover of the book. We brought her in through paint all over her, and, you know, marketed painted baby all over town. And, yeah, it’s just it’s a beautiful story of how humans connect. And it challenges and encourages readers to think about how they need to change their story, whether it’s personally or professionally so they can connect with, with clients, but then also with other people in life at a deeper level.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  23:02

Yeah, no, I completely agree. I mean, if you think about it’s part of the philosophy I have when I’m actually interviewing people, as well for it for jobs is that you want to know, of course, we want to celebrate success, absolutely. key part of who I am. But I want to know how you handle things when things go wrong. I want to know how you how you react when you’re, when you’re triggered when you’re under pressure, when all those things are happening, what what really happens, and how do you actually behave?

Matt Shoup  23:28

So yeah well, it’s some of my biggest memories in business are just the times when something doesn’t go, well, something’s on the line and to see everybody come together, and then as the leader, you know, you’ve got to go first and be in that space where people are going to trust when when something happens, you know, COVID was a big thing. When when that happened, we had to make some decisions. And there was kind of two options. There was one way to go where a lot of people were going and we decided to go another route. That was the right thing to do and the right way to do it. So yeah, it’s just it’s been such a fun journey. It’s been such a fun journey. And I love sharing the message with people.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  24:03

I’m keen to hear what you did in COVID. Now, though, of course, so what did you do that was different in COVID?

Matt Shoup  24:08

So you know, what I what I saw during COVID Is that everybody was everybody was making cuts, right? So everybody got scared. Nobody knew what was going on. And I remember we’re sitting around the table as a company. And you know, I’m seeing friends, other business owners that are like, Yep, we’re just cutting people, we got to protect ourself and our own. And I’m like, you know, what, if anybody’s going to cut anything right now, it’s gonna be me. So I cut my salary down, like close to close to in half, to create some more financial runway. Now, luckily, we were necessary business. So we weren’t too effective. But there was a couple of weeks period right there where we were envisioning, you know, just just everything crashing and burning, right, which I think a lot of people were, and I just said, Here, here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to cut things down. So we can have more runway, we’re not cutting anybody. We’re going to figure this out. We’re going to pivot. We’re going to adapt whatever that looks like. They sat there and they’re like, wow, you know, that’s that’s not what just happened to my friend or we had a spouse of a team member who, who was let go, saying we have our jujitsu Academy at the time. That’s, that’s in person to close contact. And we told everybody, we called every single member and we said, Listen, we can’t train together, we are absolutely willing to freeze your membership, and just just stop paying, and we’ll figure it out. And we just bought a building, it was crazy. And 80% of those students said, You know what? We want to support you guys. So keep keep it going. It was it was a really beautiful thing.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  25:35

That’s lovely. Oh, okay. So the painted baby book is obviously you go out and you talk about sharing vulnerable stories, the connections, the real connections you can make by actually doing that. But you still have the painting business, you still have the dungeon. So you’re still very much doing all that. How do you how do you manage to keep the balance? Right? Because I think for a lot of us, shall we say, I think it might be adult ADHD, but that sort of high functioning fast paced, want to do lots of things, we can get overwhelmed with too much stuff. So how do you keep that balance? Right, because you’ve obviously got a family, you’ve got, you know, you’ve got your business, you’ve got the end, now you’ve got the speaking and the Yeah,

Matt Shoup  26:14

As well. Yeah. And you hit you hit the nail right on the head. And we’re very similar, right, I’m this like, ADHD squirrel, I love to start things and launch things. And I do and I can get bored easily. But one of the big the big keys I found is, you know, before I’m going from one business to another, as making sure that business is is running, you know that it’s got a system, it’s got a process, it’s got the people in place to be able to do that. Because if you’re just you know, hopping, weaving these previous things in, you have all these plates spinning, and I still, like, honestly, to this day, like right now, we have a lot of plates spinning, we have a company that we built up, and we’re getting ready to sell it right now just because it’s it’s not going to keep going the way it should, and could with the amount of attention to me and my business partner don’t have for it right now. So it’s making sure you’ve got the right people the right systems, and then that’s clearly communicated. And then you let those people do their job. Because I don’t know about you. But I go, Hey, here’s your job. I’m leaving. And then I swoop in and like, Hey, how’s it going over here? We do it, we do it. Okay. So,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  27:18

Yeah. It’s basically as you know, it’s part of the work that I do, right. So it’s really about helping people get really clear on the vision in terms of what they want from it, who they were, they exist for all those things, all those wonderful things around why we exist, who exists for what we’re doing. And then yeah, it’s the letting go. That’s the hard part. Because I remember when I ran the Event Center, I was very much yep, I, I wrote lots of processes, I kind of you don’t allow employed people to do certain things. And they just couldn’t stop dabbling. And I think if you keep dabbling and keep coming back in, you’re not actually allowing it to become a sustainable business where it can operate without you. And I think I was very guilty of doing we talked about delegating, elevate, which is very much about, you know, delegate the things that are not your God given unique talent, elevate yourself to stuff that really adds most value. But it’s really, really hard to let go, because some of these things you may not like, but you’re reasonably good at. And so nobody will ever be as good as you will be. And it took a lot of time to learn that actually. You can’t just delegate and not help people. But you have to let them own it to have accountability for it, and talk to them about what you expect from them, and then then let them get on with it.

Matt Shoup  28:25

It’s so true in the two big things that I struggled with. And I think this was more more of the first level is like, I love the sales. So I said nobody can help sell me. So I trained a salesperson, like I hated the painting. So that was easy to step out of I’m not good at it, actually. But I would always I would always be grinding on the sales guys, you know, and so and salespeople, and then we’re at a point now to where they outsell me, they sell more, they sell better. And I think that’s a great thing. But the other thing for me is I I love the people so much in the business, I love the way that we get to support families make people’s lives better. So then when I’m, you know, stepping into something else, and just not spending as much time with them, I feel like I’m almost leaving them in a way. And this is just more of a personal thing that I internally struggle with, right? It’s not necessarily my perception always being true. But I think entrepreneurs experience that it’s like their, their baby, they can’t let go. And there’s those people they’re like, we’re a family here. We’re close knit group, and we’ve got each other’s backs. I mean, I’ve seen people you know, married here divorced here, kids here, losing family members, all kinds of life events, and you got to be there for people.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  29:31

I’m going to explain it a bit further you just mentioned because the sales I can see that was absolutely your passion that was you know, that’s what is that that’s really what got you into your own business and what else guys probably build up to where it is today. You’ve now got sales people out sell you what was the key to being able to let go and how did you as a leader enable them to actually grow into that role and do the right do the right thing?

Matt Shoup  29:53

It was for me the idea of coaching them and teaching them and then they’ll letting them fail. I think that’s the biggest thing and not doing it for them. Because you know, when if So say you’ve got a salesperson, and you want to train the salesperson and step out, let them just watch you do 10 appointments, and then go do 10 appointments together. And then the hardest part, this was always the hardest part. For me, it’s phase three, and I know you’re ready for phase three, okay, is you’re gonna do them, I’m just gonna sit there and observe and not say anything. And then I’m watching Oh, you know, I think this thing is going the other way. And so let in the night jump in, right? So really letting letting people fail, and letting people make the decision, make the call, based on whatever processes and protocols and company values all the guiding lights. And that person makes that decision and say it’s the wrong decision. And say you lose money. Say you missed the sale. What you first do is you say, good job, Kevin. Jim, Kathleen, whoever that is, Steven, you made the decision. Yeah. But it’s not the right decision. And but but they’re seeing you as the leader, being proud of them for that, then they go, Well, that didn’t go the way we wanted it to. No, it didn’t. So let’s talk about that separately. But but just celebrating when they make those decisions, versus you’re swooping in, and then whatever there is the decision to be made. They’re calling you and you’re the you’re the bottleneck. So I always gauge that feeling of ability to do that is, you know, when I’m getting emails or text messages or calls of hey, what do you think? Or, Hey, I’ve got, like, don’t have that anymore. It doesn’t, it doesn’t matter what I think it’s your decision. And I would get those all the time, that decision can never be made.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  31:36

So so it’s giving them true accountability, and to really run with it. And you know, it’s interesting, because what I’m doing when I’m doing my coaching, it’s really difficult sometimes because you so desperately want these businesses to succeed. And you know, that they’re making a decision that you you don’t feel is right, based on your years of experience. I could be wrong, but you don’t feel it, it’s right. And you want to jump in, you want to rescue them and save them. But the best thing you can do is just allow them to get on with it. And you can you can question and challenge and see that they’re making the right decision that they feel is the right decision. But you’ve got to let them actually go through it. And then you’ve got the opportunity to learn, right? What’s what’s working, what’s not working? What how can we do things differently? What can we do better next time around? And that’s where that’s where they improve?

Matt Shoup  32:18

And then they’ll surprise you. Because sometimes you’re sitting there thinking, Oh, they’re not making the right decision, and they’re actually making a better decision than you would have made in the company. Does does one of these from it. So yeah, and it’s just it’s a, it’s a hard thing. And there’s, there’s there’s the emotion, there’s everything going on, there’s the experience, and just that human condition, you know, with within business?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  32:37

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, um, gosh, there’s so much we could cover off here. And I’m really interested, what’s the thing you’re most proud of? I usually ask us at the beginning, we want to ask it now, what’s the thing that you’re most proud of in your life so far?

Matt Shoup  32:51

Yes, it’s raising amazing kids. You know, I think it’s, we I do all this for for my family. I mean, this is why I get up and do everything that I do every day. And it’s really cool. I’ve got a 15 year old son, and a 12 year old daughter, and for me, when they’re out in the world, whatever they’re doing in the world, when you hear other people that come up to me, they come up to my wife, Emily, and those are those are great kids, you guys did a really good job, right? Just because I see, I see some of the entrepreneurs, right, this is huge, what you what you talk about, it’s like, Hey, you built a $50 million business, and you don’t have a relationship with your kid, they don’t even know who you are, because you’re never there and you’re stressed out or they get the worst side of you, or part of you, they get the burned out part of you, if anything. And that just I’ve always put my kids and my family in a position to where I’m going to be there for them. I’m not going to miss sports events, we travel together, we do a father, son, father daughter trip to Spain every year. And they’re at a point now where they want to be around friends less than they want to be around mom and dad. So I mean, I’m at this point where they’re about to be close to getting out of the nest. And I do not regret any of that for one minute. Like I could have made more money could have had more could have had more money. But it’s not that we don’t get to take any of that stuff with us.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  34:06

No, that’s absolutely right. And I’m sure your kids will be very grateful to you as they get older as well for that opportunity to have time with mom and dad. And I think you’re instilling the values and sharing with them. So tell us about about your love of Spain. So you’ve talked about taking the family there, obviously you speak both Spanish and English. You spent a lot of time over there. What was it about Spain that you fell in love with?

Matt Shoup  34:26

So it was funny, so I started studying Spanish in high school, I was really good at it. And then I ended up doing some translating at a local elementary school for parent teacher conferences for Spanish speaking family. So when I go to college when I’m in Colorado State, I really didn’t know what I wanted to do. I said I won’t have enough credits to do a Spanish minor. So let’s just do a Spanish minor. I’m in a Spanish culture class and my professor Her name is Maria Del Mar. She’s from Southwest Spain, the city of candies and just amazing lady she’s we’re in Spanish culture clashes teaching us about the hit History in the literature and architecture and every day, literally, the end of class, she would say, Hey, have you thought about study abroad? Have you thought about going to just going to Spain? She didn’t do this to anybody else. Like she generally mentioned it, but she pulled me aside and harassed me. And after a couple of weeks, she you know, she’s like, What are you going to do next semester, so I work for the college painters, I guess. But I just decided, You know what I go, let’s let’s do this. I was I was ready for a change, ready for an escape. And I signed up in October, to literally within a couple of months, right at the turn of the year, I flew over and spent five months in Spain, right outside Madrid. And it was nice, 20 years old, and very impressionable time in my life. And I mean, I just literally fell in love took me about a month because it was it was a difficult month, there’s a roller coaster there as a foreign study abroad student. But I didn’t want to come home. I mean, everything that culture, the language of the people, the food, the coffee, and I said, when I left, I go, I’m gonna come back here one day. And then I traveled back with my wife shortly after we got married. And then we come back with the kids every year. And now I get to take business leaders on leadership adventures, we just hiked part of the Camino. Just a couple of weeks ago, yeah, with a group of business owners, business leaders, and we’re doing a big adventure immersion experience in 2024. So it’s just a huge part of my life. It’s got a piece of my heart, and I’ve got so many relationships with people that I never would have met, and just so many opportunities and experiences and memories, especially with the family and the kids. That will just be there forever. Yeah,

Debra Chantry-Taylor  36:39

I must say, I’m hugely grateful to my parents. So my mum was German, my dad was English. And they encouraged us to have pen friends and to travel with us brought up in the UK and grew up in sort of Cyprus and then moved over to the UK, we were encouraged to have pen friends and to visit various people. So we always traveled like a lot of my friends in Britain never never left the UK. They were, they never went anywhere. But we were encouraged to go and we on the cheap. We did it camping wise. It was all but it was it was so great. Because I think what it’s done is it just broadens your horizons, it gives you a different perspective on things. And I think it makes you less scared of stuff as well. Like I don’t ever have any fear of going somewhere new, I kind of go okay, that’d be really cool. Because I know I learn about new cultures, new foods, new architecture, and whoever it might be. And that is a great thing to have. Yeah.

Matt Shoup  37:27

And being Yeah, you’re in this, this new environment, and it’s uncomfortable, and you’re trying to figure things out. And then just, you know, I be very fluent in Spanish now, but not at the beginning. And I made some really classic embarrassing mistakes. Have a fun one if we have time. But yeah, just you know, being being lost in a city that you’ve never been to three in the morning. And you know, you don’t you don’t have a following you’ve got to find your way back. It was just, it was it was fun times. I mean, we were staying we’ve stayed in some crazy cheap, like $10 Night. hostels. I mean, we stayed in some scary places, it would have been better sleeping on the street or the beach.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  38:05

So you’re doing these retreats and things there. Now some in the Camino thing is obviously quite fascinating. What are the retreats about? What’s the purpose of them? Why do you do them? Yeah,

Matt Shoup  38:14

So the purpose is, so my three life’s biggest passions are pouring into people, right, just with leadership in their life and making people better. And Spain. Like, I love Spain, and I love sharing the culture, like we have a little free coffee bar downstairs. And I’m about six of these and today. And I just want I want to share that with people and teach them about leadership in really unique ways. So we did a pilot, something called the ultimate immersion experience. I took my leadership team there in 2022. And we spent a week doing these very intentionally curated challenges, experiences and adventures. So think about, it’s not like an apple tours vacation, where there’s 30 People in the flags, and you’re on the tour bus. These are people I know that I’ve got really deep relationships with showing us pieces and parts of Spain that other people won’t get to see experiencing just amazing food. And then we’re doing these amazing race style challenges. So I took my entire team. I dropped them in another country, they’ve never been there. And I Okay, guys, here’s an envelope, open it up. There’s a clue. There’s a couple euro in there, and I’ll see you in three hours ready to go boom, and they had a challenge. And I teamed everybody up and then I went and had a coffee with with my buddy Angel. And we just we just sat there and we’re like, no one’s gonna die. Hope they all get back. But we have we had safeguards in place. And then when they came back and got to talk about these really uncomfortable, fun, exciting experiences that they did, it showed them what they were made of it showed them what happened when the stress came on and how they worked together, where they weren’t great at things where they were scared to death of things. And they learned they learned a lot and then we would just fellowship at the end of the day over. You know, a three hour dinner go until May A night one in the morning. Just just praising it recognizing those those things and other people. So yeah, we’re doing that again in 2024. And then the Camino hike is more to take people that are busy, they’re successful, but they can’t unplug, they can’t disconnect. And we literally walk 72 miles over six days. So 115 kilometers, and their phones are off. There’s no service, and we’re walking and we’re talking and there’s themes and challenges each day. And I just I just love it we just got back with with a group and this really that’s called hike of a lifetime. And all of them said, they said, you know, you really undersold this, this really was an experience in a hike of a lifetime. So that’s, that’s something I’m just super super pumped to continue doing. We’re going to do. What’s on my heart right now is like a father son, Camino adventure for business owners who are fathers with their sons. That’s something that’s really important to me is that that father child dynamics, so we’re looking to do that for 2025.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  41:06

Beautiful, love it. I’m just she’s got a friend who’s just been over there and been following him on his videos each day, Marvin and yeah, it looks like an amazing walk and staying in the monasteries and all that kind of stuff. Okay, two more things about the whole Spain things. So first of all, you said you had six coffees, I hope you’re drinking proper coffee as in like an espresso as opposed to it’s perfect

Matt Shoup  41:26

Catholicon nature. So it’s a cup of tea, a couple shots of really amazing espresso and some steamed milk. So I tell people, it’s more than a cortado a lot less milk than a latte. Just a perfect, perfect combination.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  41:39

Perfect. I’m a short black girl, but I just too short. I would like to shop for shitty coffee. And I just one of the things I have to say, I did not like about the US was the coffee. Filtered coffee with bucket loads of milk doesn’t make any sense to me. But that’s

Matt Shoup  41:54

my first experience drinking drinking coffee. So I’m sitting with my host dad, and he pulls out a cup and and I take his the Catholic data. It’s the espresso of weather and I pour it in American Studies like Well, well, well, my day on the day, Oh, stop, stop. Don’t Don’t do that. And I said, No, I got and I’m an American. And I’m doing that I did a little bit of milk. And he goes, you don’t want to drink it that way. And he goes, Okay, so I drink this. And it hit me hit me hard. It hit me fast. And he’s like, this is how you drink coffee. Let me show you.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  42:24

Beautiful. So tell us now about the Spanish mistake. That’s the one they want to hear about.

Matt Shoup  42:28

Right? You asked for it, too. So you’re getting it. So when I was there, my my study abroad semester it was it was April, and it’s hot. It’s hot in Spain in center, Spain, Madrid in April. And I was still there’s still certain parts of me that were very uncomfortable. I’m a foot and a half taller than everybody. I’m getting pretty good at the language but I was just really homesick was really missing something American. And in every Plaza in the center of any decently sized Spanish city isn’t McDonald’s. So I knew that I could walk into McDonald’s and they had the 50 cent ice cream cones. And that would just it would just take me back home. So you know I’m a little a little sad, a little homesick. I walk into this McDonald’s I walk up. I’m 20. I’m single, very attractive to about 20 year old Spanish gal there. And she says the mate tell me what you want. So I go to order an ice cream cone which in Spanish it’s a cone No. Soy cone of ice cream you order at como de lado. So, I woke up and Spain has in Spanish has the interesting little squiggly line that goes over the end and it actually changes the letter, which will change the word. So Espanol has the little then yeah, a little squiggly makes it Yes. So instead of ordering a como de la though, I ordered a con yo de la so she said tell me what you want. I said con do they live and she’s she’ll sir kata yet Oh, sir, she was I can’t give you that and I immediately recognized what I did. And I ordered an ice cream vagina and I’m just like, oh my gosh, and she’s just gonna try to like flirt with me. She was no just a big dumb, tall, pasty American. And then she spins back around she goes I know what she wants. She gets me the ice cream cone and then she’s like for here to go she goes the other the other one costs you more than 50 cents and like set sends me on my way. And that was just it’s a little change in the language. Right? This is like like leadership you think of like personality styles just a little change a little squiggly line like that change the engagement, the conversation and we got to watch out for those things but yeah, that’s my that’s my most embarrassing screw up in Spanish.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  44:45

I have a similar story myself in France because I speak French and German but not particularly well I might add and certainly haven’t used it for a long time and um, when I first went to France I’d been doing French lessons at school forever and thought I was really really good. And and you know you can say Thank you very much. It’s Merci beaucoup. But if you actually say, merci beaucoup, it actually means thank you beautiful bottom. You gotta be a little bit careful about just a site site, changing intonation, it can actually make them. And this is one of my things about business, I think that we’re losing the art of having, like, you know, face to face conversations. And when you look at things like email and text messages, they can be really easily misunderstood. Because you haven’t got that. The context, if you like, in terms of, you know, languages is fascinating as we just found out, it can be it can mean many different things. And I think, to be very careful that we don’t try and replace what is really good communication with things like email and text, because it’s easy to do, because it’s easy, right? It’s easy. It’s easy for me to send you an email, conversation.

Matt Shoup  45:51

Yes, but But I’ve had so many missed, just missed messages when you when you’re doing it too fast. And you don’t have that great.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  46:00

Yeah, good examples that Okay, right. We could probably talk all day, but we need to kind of wrap this up, give me your three top tips or tools, what are the three things that you would share with the listeners, they could go out, go out and do something with

Matt Shoup  46:14

In business, especially like, remember that we do this for our family? Obviously, we need to, we need to provide, but you don’t get to take any of this stuff with you. So just just remember when you’re in business, that, that you have an opportunity to impact lives and to make lives better for people and just put put people over profit. Second thing, and this is a big thing, just looking back at 20 years of growing, the businesses that we have is things take time. And good things take time. And they don’t happen overnight. And the more and more I see culture and society progress, especially with social is you see all of this stuff where it just looks like the quick fix, you know, it’s get rich, quick, doing whatever, and it just doesn’t, it doesn’t work that way. So don’t don’t let those things fool you. And then get a mentor. Find somebody that has been there that has done that, that you can really sit down and shoot straight with and be real with. And, you know, especially I’ll tie in kind of a fourth, but the part of getting a mentor is ask for help when you need it. And be okay standing in front of your team as the leader saying, I don’t know the answer to this question. I think we feel like we always have to have the answer all the time. And you’re not always going to and it’s totally okay to ask for help.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  47:29

Yeah, I love that. It’s one of the things I talked about. Okay. So people haven’t profit, good things do take time. And don’t be afraid to ask for help get yourself somebody who’s been there done that to can actually help you and be honest with you. I think as well as have those, those difficult conversations, and maybe your team might not feel quite so comfortable having Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. Okay. Now, if anybody wants to get in contact with your match, either about the painted baby book or about the Camino, the different retreats and things that you run, how would they do that?

Matt Shoup  47:58

Yeah, just go to my website, Matt, I would suggest just grab the free tools. And then I’m sending everybody, I’ll send you a big packet and bucket of free tools to make life and leadership better. And then I send out emails about when these adventures are coming up.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  48:14

That is fantastic. Hey, look, I’ve really enjoyed meeting with you. Because I think we’ve got a lot less listing some of your stories, we’ve got a lot of things in common. But but but I think we’ve also shared the same passion. So I suppose the passion is, for me, it’s about your life is too short. You’ve got to be doing what you love with people, you love making a big difference, but most importantly, with time to pursue other passions, because you know, your family is one of the most important things you need to make sure that you’re looking after yourself. Yeah, so I really I love me to get kindred souls. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for sharing. So vulnerably Yeah, appreciate it.

Matt Shoup  48:46

Stay out of trouble, because I know you’re a troublemaker just like me.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  48:51

I’m getting better as I get older, but I’m not definitely

Matt Shoup  48:54

Not what had a little bit of trouble. troubles. All right.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  48:56

I like to call it adventures these days. Yeah, it was really interesting. A very, very quick thing. We have got to we don’t have any children as such, my husband and I but we have two Furbabies to fertility money. Schnauzers. And I travel a fair bit with work and my husband was coming to the airport. And I said to him one time he used to wait in the car and say, you know, I really want you to come meet me at the actual arrivals. It makes me feel wanted, it makes me feel special. So he started doing that was really cool. But the last time round, he decided to bring the two mini Schnauzers into the airport to meet with me, which was brilliant because I got out of there. These Schnauzers are just so excited to see mommy hasn’t been home for a week and my husband was excited. So they were all you know, wiping their bottoms are getting very excited. But of course, we kind of knew but we ignored it. You’re not meant to have dogs in the airport in New Zealand. Okay, so as everybody airports, fawning over the Schnauzers I’m having a lovely time because my chances are they’re getting all excited about Apollo and Hermes. And then all of a sudden the security guard comes over. And it’s like what are you doing with dogs in the airport and we were in massive trouble. We managed to look very sheepish and get out of it, but we’re still getting into trouble. Even mid 50s. But now we just call it an adventure. It was another adventure. We check it out. You know, we put it on the bucket list. Yep, we’ve done that.

Matt Shoup  50:11

Yeah, keep doing what you’re doing. I really appreciate the time and you haven’t beyond and, and I will come back. We I feel like we could talk a lot more. So we’ll come back for another episode. Definitely. All right. We’d

Debra Chantry-Taylor  50:21

love to do that. And I’m gonna read painter baby as well. But don’t don’t put painted babies into Google because you won’t find it.

Matt Shoup  50:27

I haven’t I haven’t even googled that. I don’t know what I’m not going to trust you.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  50:32

Thanks again, I look forward to catching up at Rancho Thank you. Thanks for listening to the podcast show better business better life. My name is Debra Chantry-Taylor. I’m an EOS implementer family business advisor, business and leadership coach podcaster and speaker. However, I’m also a business owner with several current business interests. I’m fortunate to have live the high life with all the lifestyle, the toys, you name it, and then I’ve lost it all. Not only once but twice in two spectacular train wrecks. I know what it’s like to experience the highs and lows. I came across EOS when they launched into New Zealand using my entrepreneurs playground at an event center in Parnell Auckland. I love the simplicity of the tools and their philosophies fitted my personal brand statement perfectly. The brilliance is in the simplicity. I’ve always been passionate about seeing entrepreneurs live the life they love. And now I help them live that EOS life doing what they love with people they love making a huge difference in the world being compensated appropriately and with time to pursue other passions. If you want more information or want to get in contact about using ELS and your business, you can visit my website at Deb Deborah dot coach that’s dub dub dub Deborah D B ra dot coach. Thanks for listening.









Debra Chantry-Taylor 

Professional  EOS Implementer | Entrepreneurial Leadership & Business Coach | Business Owner

#betterbusinessbetterlife #entrepreneur #leadership #eosimplementer #professionaleosimplementer #entrepreneurialbusinesscoach

Professional EOS Implementer New Zealand

Professional EOS Implementer  Australia

Professional EOS Implementer UK

Professional EOS Implementer NZ

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