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Be best FOR the world, not best in the world with Tim Jones – Episode 34

3 top tips from Tim Jones

1. Get the alignment of you and your business

If you don’t actually know who you are and you don’t actually know what you stand for, you’re always going to be suffering from what I call the authenticity gap. You’re going to be doing things at work and wanting to build a business that’s not actually reflective of who you really, really are. That’s the hard, hard sort of mahi that needs to be done that so few people actually want to do. But I and my business are one. Everything that I think and feel I get to express in my business, and that is liberating and exciting in equal measures.

2. Do more outbound sales activity

If you’re in a business and you think you’re doing as much as you can, you’re not. You can always do more. Just as an example, I sent 500 emails out a month ago about a campaign I was initiating. From that I got probably 30 to 40 replies, ‘Yes, I want in’. About a year ago I did another campaign, I sent 1000 messages via LinkedIn. Got 100 replies and got 30 clients. Just do more of it. They might be sitting there going, ‘Oh, my word, if only there was someone out there who could solve it and help us.’ That could be you.

3. Aim to be the best for the world, not the best in the world

When we’re talking about purpose versus money, can you name the company that was listed number three on the NZX in March 2013? No course you can’t, because no one cares. But you can remember a brand or a company that went out of its way to do something good, that was meaningful and made a contribution. Really think about how your organisation can make a dent in the universe. You’re going to be remembered for the thing that you did and how you made people feel.

Resources mentioned in this episode:
In pursuit of purpose video:
Free ebooks & resources:

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Tim Jones, Debra Chantry-Taylor

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:12

Welcome to another episode of Better Business Better Life. I’m your host, Debra Chantry-Taylor. I’m passionate about helping entrepreneurs and their leadership teams get what they want out of business and life. On the show, I invite successful business owners and expert speakers to share their successes. They are open and honest about the highs and lows of business and also life as a business owner. We want to share those learnings with you to inspire you, but also to help you avoid some of the common mistakes. My hope is that you take something from each of these short episodes that you can put into action to help you get what you want. Not only out of your business, but also your life. So good morning, and welcome to another episode of Better Business, Better Life. Today, I am joined by Tim Jones, who is the Grow Good Guy. And I’ll let you explain a little bit more about what that is, but welcome, Tim.

Tim Jones  01:01

Hello, thanks for having me.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:03

Absolute pleasure. Tim and I got introduced via a friend as is always the case in little old New Zealand and really enjoyed hearing his story so I invited him onto the podcast to talk a little bit about that. But before we do that, Tim, would you just mind sharing with us a professional and a personal best in your life so far?

Tim Jones  01:19

Well, professional best would probably be becoming, having my company become a B Corp pretty early on in the piece, which I guess we’ll talk about bit more later on. Personal best, I think it’s probably being a, hopefully slightly slightly better than average dad to my nine year old daughter. I think that’s what, well I’m aiming to try and be the best, but hey, we all have our moments. And there is no rulebook

Debra Chantry-Taylor  01:45

We are human and there is absolutely no rulebook, I’m sure you’re doing a fine job. Excellent. So yeah, so this is why we actually kind of got talking because we got introduced and you were explaining. I didn’t really understand, I’d heard of it, but didn’t understand what it really meant. So I wonder if that might be a good place to start. What is a B Corp?

Tim Jones  02:01

That’s a great question. So a certified B Corporation is generally I say, generally a for profit business, because there are some exceptions. But in general, it’s for profit businesses that have been independently verified to be operating at the highest levels of transparency and accountability of their social environmental footprint. So it’s kind of CSR on steroids or corporate social responsibility on steroids. And to get certified, you undertake an initial self assessment, which is then verified by an external independent auditor from B Lab, which is a nonprofit organisation with regional hubs around the world. So our regional one is in Melbourne, B Lab Australia, New Zealand. So they verify your score, independently verify your score, you need to meet a score of 80 out of 200 to get the certification. Yeah, and it’s, I guess, it’s corporate social responsibility to a deeper level where you actually have to prove the good that you’re doing rather than, hey, look at us, we’ve offset our carbon. Aren’t we doing great?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  03:03

Yeah. Okay, that makes perfect sense. And you say it’s like corporate social responsibility on steroids. But it’s not just for large corporates, right?

Tim Jones  03:11

100%, no. So my business is a B Corp and my business is currently me and a couple of contractors that I engage, from now and then, all the way through to within New Zealand we have Katmandu is a B Corp, they are a listed company. And globally, you have companies of the size of like Ben and Jerry’s, or Danone one of the world’s biggest companies. But globally, the vast majority of B Corps, in terms of you know that the number of actual B Corps are small to medium enterprises. So it is 100% right for businesses. I say this all the time to companies on either, you know, talking to about getting started with them or or started working with them. It’s not about size, and kind of what you do. It’s more about your mindset and your intent of what you want to do, and what you want to prove that you’re doing.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  03:56

Okay. And so how did you get into it? How did you come across it?

Tim Jones  04:00

That is a great question. And it’s, I think my wife refers to it as my first early midlife crisis, where I was, I used to work as a medical device sales rep. So I used to work for typically global multinational medical device companies, such as Johnson and Johnson’s and other smaller ones. And there was some activities going on in some of those companies that when you’re within them, you kind of just go with the flow, and you know, they pay you well, and you can kind of turn a blind eye and I guess I was genuinely young and the big boys were making me do it kind of excuses. Yeah. But fundamentally, it was the earthquakes here, so 2010 to 2011 earthquake sequence in Canterbury, and then 2012 birth of our daughter, I pretty much had what’s called a subconscious awakening. So it’s really, really common if you have a near death experience or birth of a child or death of someone close to you, that you have this kind of existential wet fish to the face where you’re given a real slap in the chops and you’re like, ‘Whoa, what is this actually all about and what’s going on?’ So I had that, and I ended up leaving the medical device industry. And I thought, okay, maybe it’s just the industry that I’m in, maybe I’ll, I’ll go and try something else. And so I ended up applying for about 60 different jobs across all different kinds of industries, because I kind of had no idea what I wanted to be when I grew up in that regard. And I ended up falling into a role really, as general manager for firmer surveyors and engineers back in Christchurch, we’d moved up to Auckland post quake. And yeah, general manager for this firm, and some of the internal culture just wasn’t great. And so I kind of started Googling, you know, is there some kind of HR programme course that I can send a couple of people on, and we can maybe sort of find some programme that we could look at that would bring the culture up. And on that journey, I stumbled across this thing called B Corp certification. And I was like, Okay, this is this is pretty cool. It’s kind of looking at your business beyond not just your environmental footprint, but how you treat your staff and some other metrics, which we can sort of unpack a bit more in a minute. And I thought, well, this, this looks really cool. I wonder if this if there’s one in New Zealand, and I had a quick look, I was like, dammit, there is one in New Zealand. I wonder if there’s one in Christchurch, hopefully there won’t be one in Christchurch, dammit. There’s one in Christchurch. So I emailed the CEO, Steve Arda, who’s now actually based in Tahoe, California. And I said, Hey, I just stumbled across this B Corps stuff, I see that you are one like, can I come and have a chat. And so I booked it a 45 minute meeting with him at the head office, which used to be here, just outside of Christchurch. And I left there, maybe two and a half, three hours later, just with my mind like completely expanded that, you know, that there was a group of companies and back in this was, this would have been in 2013. You know, that there was a group of companies globally that were aiming to be the best for the world, not the best in the world. And that was the thing I was looking for. It’s like, I guess my time in the medical device and then in the world of sort of commercial property, it just seemed to be that all anyone cared about was making money. And they didn’t care about whether people or the planet got destroyed on the journey. And that was the thing that really wasn’t sitting with me. And I think that was where my daughter really played a part. It’s like, well, hang on a minute, like, what world am I creating, that she’s going to inherit? And do I want to be a part of one that she inherits where it’s a great planet that’s doing really, really well? Or do I want to just, you know, skip a beat and let her be the one who has to pick up some pieces of stuff that’s not going so well?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  07:22

Yep. Fantastic. Actually, it’s interesting, because you just kind of struck a chord with me, I realised that actually, I had a similar kind of an equal to subconscious awakening on the death of my mum and my brother, and was like, Oh, my goodness, life suddenly became too short. And what are we doing? And I too, as it was, you know, worked in the medical pharmaceutical industry for quite some time, and I too put up with all the stuff that went on. And now I look back and go, I’m horrified actually, when I look back at what we’ve put up with yeah.

Tim Jones  07:47

Totally. There’s this really cool, it’s poignant. It’s devastating. It’s enlightening, called The Bleeding Edge. There used to be on Netflix, I’m not sure if it’s on there. But it’s a big exposed area of the medical device industry, because a lot of people kind of go, and I guess it’s topical in the COVID, you know, vaxx, not vaxx world. You know, some people are skeptical of pharmaceutical companies. However, the medical device industry is actually bigger, more pervasive and less well known. So if you think in a hospital, every piece of equipment in the hospital is sold by a company, including all the bits and bobs that go into a human in an operation. And yeah, so that yeah. And typically, that’s the thing, we need that existential hit from outside to make us wake up and go, what’s this all for?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  08:30

Well, I’m pleased that we both had that in some respects. Yeah. So tell me a little bit more about what it means then you’re to be – because you said you have to get 80 out of 200? I’m going to be honest. So if I was at school, that wouldn’t even be a pass. Right? So I’ve got to question

Tim Jones  08:47

Totally, and everyone says, this is like, Oh, how hard can this be? It’s like, just turn up, you know, take the test. Good luck is what I say in return to that. So most companies who take the assess the self assessment for the first time score between 40 and 50, out of 200. So if you are a limited company, who’s you know, your only fiduciary responsibility is to run sovereignly you know, and trade within the laws of the land, most of those companies giving it a first go score between 40 and 50 points. So to be even getting 80, you’re doing well. I guess also, for reference, there is no 200 point company in the world currently. The highest I believe at the minute is about 170. Okay, so no one has got, you know, that close to 200 yet, so to be doing to be scoring 80 You’re doing significantly better than most of your peers.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  09:36

Yeah. Okay. And so then tell me a little bit more about what’s involved like what are the things that are measured? What does it look like? And also I suppose I’m interested from a business point of view, what difference does it make to the business because it’s very, all very well and nice to get a little tick and go yes, we’re B Corp certified but what does it really do?

Tim Jones  09:52

Yep, totally. So the process the assessment itself, looks at your business across five pillars, as I call them or five sections, so it looks at your governance. So who owns your business? How transparent is your business? There was that whole thing a few years ago? Was it the MonSEC, Monsecco, or whatever it was called, where, you know, all these companies seemingly were owned by one guy in the Bahamas, and there were 50 shell companies, and, you know, no one knows where the money’s going and no one’s paying tax anywhere. You know, if you’re doing that, you’re probably not gonna make a great B Corp. So the governance section here is where the sort of transparency and accountability, who owns you, you know, you get more points for being a worker owned cooperative, things like that, sort of the highest level, then it looks at your workers. So what I guess what benefits beyond what is state mandated do you provide to your employees? So in New Zealand, we companies typically score really well on the workers section because we have a lot of favourable trade winds, we have mandated holiday, you know, maternity leave paternity leave. We have a living wage, all that kind of good stuff. So yeah, the workers is worker benefits and entitlements beyond what is state mandated, then it looks at your environment sorry community impact. So community is is where you capture supply chain, as well as opportunities that you’re providing to perhaps people that are historically finding it hard to get employment. So do you provide opportunities for people with disability or from other underrepresented groups to get employment within your company? It’s also where you capture everything around charitable donations and giving back. Then there’s the environment section, which is pretty much you know, the standard stuff, your carbon emissions, your energy usage, where you get your energy from, like, are you using renewable sources? It looks at your water usage. And it will depend on whether you’re, you know, if you’re a manufacturer, clearly you’re having a bit more of an environmental footprint than if you’re a service business like mine. And then it has your customer model. So what are you selling? What what product or service are you selling? And to whom? I think that’s the five is that right?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  12:07

I’ve got five – governance, impact workers environment, customer model.

Tim Jones  12:10

There we go, that’s the ones Yep. So yeah, so what does this actually give you? Well, this is the thing, I think, when you look broadly, what’s happening in the world, there are some systemic factors that are driving the rise of people wanting to prove and verify the good that they’re doing. And, you know, climate change, we’ve got the cop 26 stuff going on. COVID, I think has led to a lot of business owners having that existential fish to the face. It’s like, you know, if your business wasn’t an essential business during lockdown, well, why does humanity need you? You know, if you’re not genuinely needed by humanity, then why are you selling stuff and destroying the planet? Potentially, you know, at the worst end. And, you know, globally, we’ve got movements, you know, pick a social movement, where someone has a concern around it, you know, there’s inequality, there’s racial discrimination, there’s gender equality, there’s pay equity, there’s, you know, there are plenty of things that can be made better. So there’s some systemic factors that I think are driving that. But for me, if you look at any business, there are four groups of humans that every business needs, you need customers, you need employees, you need investment, and you need suppliers. And all four of those groups are increasingly demanding that you do better in your business. So the Colmar Brunton better futures report is a really great report for some stats, you know, for kiwi businesses, and year on year it’s showing that customers and employees want to work for and buy from brands that can prove that they’re genuinely contributing to something better in life than just trying to make money. The evidence is overwhelming their supply chain, you know, this is coming from from two levels. And you know, when you we’ve got some bigger B Corps coming through the process right now, one of the questions that you’re asked as a B Corp is, you know, look at your own supply chain, and try and find small independent locally owned suppliers where possible. So there is going to be becoming, I think, an increasing tail wagging of dog, where there is a large company in the middle who will want to start finding smaller independent suppliers locally, that they can they can, you know, plug into. But the big one for me really is sort of the investment side and when, when the money people get B Corp, then you kind of know, it’s, it’s a real thing. This isn’t just, you know, hug a tree, let’s all, you know, sing Kumbaya and have a great time and try and save the planet. You know, there is some economic reality to it. So in May this year, ANZ Bank created the first of this sort of lending vehicle of its kind in New Zealand really at scale, where they created what’s called an ESG back loan. So environment social governance, back loan, for Katmandu, of 100 million Australian dollars, and that is basically indexed on Katmandu, maintaining and increasing their B Corp certification score. So I used to give examples of this in Danone in Europe, this is now big companies in New Zealand and I get the impression that the Team ANZ and other you know Kiwi bank is now a B Corp Co-Op bank as a B Corp. I don’t think it will, we’re far away from us seeing, you know, financing and investment vehicles where as part of the deal, you need to be proving that you’re doing more good as a business. And, you know, ANZ are basically saying B Corp was the one that B Corp was the framework that they chose, because it just gave legitimacy. It’s independently verified, and it’s globally recognised.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  15:27

Yeah. It’s not just kind of waving the flag saying, Hey, we’re corporately social funds, but what we’ve actually got something set up.

Tim Jones  15:33

Yep. Yeah. And I guess just a couple other things to point to. So there’s a study that was a study done at the University of Ghent in Belgium, a couple of years back, or 2018. And they said, you know, using a panel data set of financial data of European firms that obtained B Corp certification between 2012 and 2018. This paper empirically shows that B Corp certification positively impacts the turnover growth rates, one year pre versus one year post certification. So there are compelling arguments made, you know, spiritually metaphysically just do the right thing. And there are marketing and HR and recruitment arguments if you just kind of want to be a slightly better business to capture the goodwill. But actually, if all you care about is making more money, then you should be B Corp.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  16:16

That’s the bottom line too,

Tim Jones  16:20

There is no way out of this, you should just be a B Corp.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  16:23

So the Katmandu example is a lovely example of you know what that’s obviously helped them with a bank stuff, I know that you actually work with companies to help them prepare for the B Corp certification, can you give me an example of a company don’t have mentioned names, but a company you’ve worked with, and the differences you saw before you started working with them. And once you they completed it?

Tim Jones  16:42

Totally, there’s been some really good examples just recently, where kiwis I think, who is, in general, we’re pretty humble, we don’t always sort of recognise the good that we’re actually doing. Which is one part of it. And the second part of it is the assessment. If you’ve never done the assessment before, it can be quite tricky. Some people can just do it, and they can breeze through it. But if your time poor, and you’re constrained, and you just want to get it done, you can, you know, chew up a bit of time, which is why I’ve created that service. But what I typically find, like one great example, is a company that they sort of have nutrition, and cosmetics as their products. And there was whole lot of stuff that they were doing that for them was just business as usual. But when I was unpicking it, I was going, do you know how phenomenal it is that you’re doing what you’re doing here. And they, they couldn’t recognise it? Because it’s like the fish in the water. It’s like, what do you mean, we just we just do this? And, yeah, and so there are some companies where they’re doing a lot of good. And they just haven’t, they’ve kind of lost sight of the good that they’re doing and going through the assessment. And they have to kind of dredge this stuff up and bring it up and go, Oh, you do do that. We do do that. And you can just see all the team that, the pride and the engagement and the excitement in the team. Having someone external come and go, like, genuinely, you are doing some amazing stuff here. Like keep going keep building on it. But equally, there’s quite a few companies where they kind of go, well, we don’t know what this question means. And I can sort of help unpack it. And they go, oh, yeah, actually, we did do that. We had that trading person come in and run that programme, or, but didn’t wait, your didn’t we help that company do this? And it’s like, yes, that’s exactly what this question is asking. And they’re like, oh, okay, so we are doing this stuff. Yeah. So it’s kind of that’s typically the two that I work with.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  18:25

Okay. And so then if somebody does it, and they they don’t, you know, they don’t score so well? Do they then get feedback about what they could be doing to improve? Like, how does the whole process work?

Tim Jones  18:35

Yep. So that the self assessment works on the principle that you need to be showing a score of at least 80 to 200 before you can click submit. And that’s where people like me come into play as like, if you’re stuck a lot of people ring me because they’re stuck at 60, or 70. Or they just, they’ve had a quick look at it, and they just go, I just need some help. I want to do this quickly. So let’s just get it done. Yet, you can’t click Submit until you’ve reached at least 80. But typically, what what can happen is you maybe you’ve got 85, and you and you click submit, it’s not uncommon that during the initial process of verification with your auditor, you will start losing points as they start going through and going actually, okay, we’re not, we’re not so sure about this one, or what have you. Yep. But that’s where you know, that’s what I’m trying to offer as a service. That means that that’s less likely to happen, because you’ve kind of been almost, I guess, I kind of pitch it like you have to take an exam. I’ve taken the exam multiple times, I’ve got the answer sheet. So I’m pretty confident I can get you a decent score. That’s not going to be you know, going up and down too much. But yeah, typically, you could say you can’t actually click certify unless you’ve reached the 80 to 200 threshold, but I guess the, everyone kind of wants you to become a B Corp. So it’s not a negative scoring system. It’s a positive scoring system. So you get recognised for the good that you are doing not, you know, sort of punished for the bad that you’re doing, if that makes sense. So even you know, the the standards assessor will guide you and give you guidance and say, Well look, I can’t give you these points right now. However, if you go and do this, or if you can find me this spreadsheet or if you can show me the invoice of this that I can give you those points.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  20:13

So it gives you some positive ways of going forward. And then once you’re part of the B Corps kind of family, I guess of certified accompanies, is there support in that network? Is there anything else that you know that you get from being certified?

Tim Jones  20:28

Yep, that’s we’re definitely trying to get better at doing that. It’s been you know, for the first few years, it was pretty hard with the I guess, you know, that not only the tyranny of distance that New Zealand suffers being at the bottom of the planet, but also we’re a long skinny country. And you know, we had lots of B Corps in Christchurch. We had a couple in Wellington and a few in Auckland. So it was really hard for us to get together. And there is now a really strong community in Auckland, Mike Carroll, who runs an IT company called Brightly and he basically runs the community events in Auckland. Yep. So if anyone’s in Auckland, they want to go and have a you know, have a look at what B Corps is all about when they’re out of lockdown in the near future. Hopefully Mike will be getting some stuff going, Claire at Springload in Auckland, sorry in Wellington. She’s been doing a lot of work trying to get the Wellington community going. And myself and Kath from Eagle who were the first people in New Zealand we try and keep some events going in in Christchurch. So we try and make this like they’re called B Locals. So these these regular B Local events where if you’re, if you’re kind of B curious, come along and have a have a beer or whatever it is, you know, the event that’s being run? Yeah. Yeah. So that’s really a big part of it is trying to build that community of like minded businesses that just want to be better. And, you know, and go on a journey to do more good.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  21:39

Awesome. That’s fantastic. Okay, so how long have you been certified for yourself now?

Tim Jones  21:45

2016 was my first one. So I certified 2016. It used to be that you recertified every two years. So I then I then recertified 2018. And then they’ve moved it to a three year recertification cycle due to basically overwhelming demand in the system. So I’m literally just going through my second recertification now. So it’s kind of like the classic builders house on the street. I’m spending all my time helping other people, which is why on Saturday, I was working going right, to pull these documents together and find all this evidence for my own assessment. Thanks.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  22:19

So if people are curious, you said obviously, can gather local events to B Local events. But is there anything online they can actually check out as well?

Tim Jones  22:26

Yep, totally. So, is the sort of B Corp regional hub. I’ve got a tonne of resources on my website, I’ve got a cheeky little ebook that’s free to download on my website, we can put links in the show notes, or I can send it through to you, whatever is easiest, which basically summarises you know, the why, what and how of B Corp like, why is it a thing? Why you should think about it? And if you want to do it, how do you go and do it?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  22:51

I’ll definitely grab that from you we’ll put them to the notes afterwards. Yeah. So your website is?

Tim Jones  22:57

Debra Chantry-Taylor  23:00

Fantastic. Okay. So the one of the things I always ask is, you know, we’re aiming to help people improve their lives and their businesses, what are the three kind of tips or tools or things that you would like to share that have been really helpful in your journey or that you think could help people on their journey?

Tim Jones  23:15

Yep. I think the overarching and critical one, which is maybe the thing that you and I both experienced with the existential wet fish is get the alignment of you and your business, like, if you don’t actually know who you are, and you don’t actually know what you stand for, you’re always going to be suffering, from what I call the authenticity gap, you’re going to be doing things at work and wanting to build a business that’s not actually reflective of who you really, really are. But that’s the hard, hard sort of mahi that needs to be done that so few people actually want to do but, you know, I am, I and my business are one, you know, like everything that I think and feel which I get to express in my business, and that is liberating and exciting in equal measures. Whereas I know how I used to feel trapped in a corporate environment where I had to not say what I thought for fear of something happening.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  24:06

Yeah. And I think you know, whilst obviously I work mostly with business owners and their leaders, I think it applies even when you’re in a job though, like if it doesn’t make your heart sing. Go out and find out what does because life is too short.

Tim Jones  24:17

100%. Yeah, there was disturbingly awful statistic from UK Government, UK Gov or YouGov polls that they run. Again, it’s a maybe 2018 I think it was 35% of British employees felt that their job provided them with no meaning and in fact, it was contributing to destroying the planet. And we wonder why there’s a mental health crisis. And equally for managers. I think it was 2017 or 2018. Again, a world economic forum survey 50% of managers and leaders surveyed felt their job provided them with no meaning. It’s like you’re going to be there for 80,000 hours. Please enjoy it. Like it just a little bit. So yeah, get that stuff under control. That’d be my overarching one.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  24:57

Do you have a sort of resource that you – I love to start with Why by Simon Sinek he’s got some good workbooks as you can work through as well as the one that you use or recommend?

Tim Jones  25:05

And yeah, I’ve got, I mean, that’s something that I work with people as well as helping them work out, well, actually, who am I? I’ve got a cool little YouTube video, I can give you the link to that, which is basically like a 60 minute overview of that journey to purpose and finding out actually who you are. And there’s, there’s so many, there’s a lot of reading you can do there. I mean, you know, things like Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, getting really down to sort of brass tacks and you know, what is it all about? The, I mean, ironically, some of the best things, you can actually go and watch are movies, you know, it’s that that Hero’s Journey is the journey that we typically all need to go through to become the best version of us to go, you know, your homework is go and watch Star Wars go and watch Harry Potter go and watch the Hobbit, you know, read The Hobbit, you know? So that would be Yeah, does that count as one piece of advice?

Debra Chantry-Taylor  25:57

That’s one, what’s number two please?

Tim Jones  25:59

Number two, so my background was in sales. And I do sales training, as well as the B Corp and purpose stuff that I do. Do more outbound sales activity if you’re in a business, and you can, you can never, you think you’re doing as much as you can, but you’re not. So.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  26:14

So just give me so what do you mean by outbound sales activity, because you know, as soon as somebody said to me, Oh, my God, cold calling, I can’t do it.

Tim Jones  26:20

But that doesn’t have to be cold calling doesn’t have to be is I mean, cold, but cold calling we’re getting. You should never be cold calling to sell on a call. The only reason you cold call is to ring someone to confirm their details and ask them to get an appointment. But don’t be selling to Australia. If they go, hey, well, who are you? What do you want, and you end up having a conversation with them? Fantastic. But the reason for a cold call is to find is to basically ring the assistant, the PA, the EA or whoever to get the details to send an email to book an appointment. That’s the only reason should be cold calling. Yeah. But just as an example, I sent 500 emails out a month ago about a campaign I was initiating. From that I got probably 30 to 40 replies, Yes, I want it. Yep. And about a year ago, I did another campaign, I sent 1000 messages via LinkedIn. Got 100 replies got 30 clients. Yeah, just do more of it.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  27:17

Yeah, I think we get a bit nervous. Like, what happens if I send it and they don’t want to come was, I’m running an event at the moment. It’s a Facebook invite, what if they don’t want to come? And then somebody said to me, Well, if they don’t want to come, they can ignore it.

Tim Jones  27:28

Okay, I was doing some coaching with a client late last year. And I said, you know, it’s a challenge for us, you need to go and send at least 10 Outbound emails this week to potential clients. And click back in a week later, she’d spent five days procrastinating day six, she sort of sent five day seven, she sent five. I said, How did it go? She said, Yeah, I’m absolutely gutted. I said, No, what happened? She said, Well, I sent one email to a national company that I’ve been really wanting to do some work for, but I’ve just hasn’t been hesitant in sending the email, they replied almost immediately. And the end reply was basically, if you’d messaged me yesterday, I would have chewed your arm off. However, we found someone and we’re all good. And it’s like, that’s, that’s the corollary to it, or the contrary to it. It’s like, they might be sitting there going, Oh, my word if only there was someone out there who could solve it and help us. And that could be you.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  28:22

Thank you for that. And the third and final?

Tim Jones  28:24

Oh, I don’t know it’s tough. I think for me, it’s just, I guess it bring it back to the B Corp and the purpose stuff, it’s like, just be better, you know, aim to be the best for the world, not the best in the world. I think we, we have this weird dynamic, particularly in New Zealand, that of the whole tall poppy syndrome. And, you know, not wanting to be the best, but it’s like, I’m in some ways, I’m kind of cool with that. Because tall poppy just for the sake of tall poppy makes no sense. Like, who cares how big your business is or what’s your revenue? You know, a question I ask people in workshops quite often is when we’re talking about, you know, purpose versus money. It’s like the cool, can you name the company that was listed number three on the NZX in March 2013? No course you can’t, because no one cares. But you can you can remember a brand or a company that went out of its way to do something good, that was meaningful, that made a contribution. And that would be my thing is like, just really think about how can your organisation make a dent in the universe? You know, you’re going to be remembered for the thing that you did, you know, how you made people feel rather, instead of you know, what you did and how you did it? Yeah. Yeah.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  29:36

That’s fantastic. Hey, look, some really great things that I will make sure that I get hold of that YouTube video and your ebook link. And we’ll put a link into your Where you’ve got other lots of useful information, right? Yes.

Tim Jones  29:46

Yes there’s a whole free resources page. You can have have at it and download to your heart’s content.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  29:51

Wonderful. Now if people want to get in contact with you, Tim, how would they get hold of you?

Tim Jones  29:56

Just through the website, you can book an appointment to have a call with me or genuinely, let’s go old school. The easiest thing is to ring me, my phone number is on my website. It’s 0212882363. Call me when you’re stuck in traffic. If you’ve listened to the podcast, call me afterwards and w’ll have a chat.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  30:20

That sounds fantastic. I love it, thank you so much for your time. That’s been really, really informative myself and I’m sure for others as well. Love what you’re doing. I’m going to go have a look at it myself and see if we can sign up. So thank you. Excellent.

Tim Jones  30:31

Thank you for the opportunity.

Debra Chantry-Taylor  30:32

No worries I look forward to talking soon. Thanks again for joining us on Better Business, Better Life with me, your host Debra Chantry-Taylor. If you enjoy what you heard, then please subscribe to this podcast and let us help you to get what you want out of business and life. Each week we release a new short episode which will give a success story and three takeouts to put into action immediately. These will help you take your business from good to great. The podcast is also supported by free resources, templates and useful tools, which you can find at I am a trained entrepreneur, leadership and business coach, a professional EOS implementer and an established business owner myself. I work with established businesses to help them get what they want. Feel free to contact me if you’d like to have a chat about how I might be of help to you. Or if you’d like to join me as a guest on this podcast. Thanks again to NZ audio editors for producing this podcast. See you on the next episode.

Debra Chantry-Taylor

Professional EOS Implementer | Entrepreneurial Leadership & Business Coach | Business Owner

#betterbusinessbetterlife #entrepreneur #leadership #eosimplementer #professionaleosimplementer #entrepreneurialbusinesscoach

Professional EOS Implementer New Zealand

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