Would you pursue something that had a mere 30% success rate? Better yet, would you try learn a completely new skill from scratch without a coach? If you answered yes to both then you’re potentially like me and have a chip on your shoulder so take the hard route just to prove a point. That would be a mistake. If there’s one thing I’ve learned in life, it’s that you don’t know what you don’t know, so you better find someone in the know so you can start knowing things quicker. Apart from a poorly written rhyme it has some sense to it. You wouldn’t become an NBA player without ever having a coach so why then with business having such a high failure rate have you not considered getting a business coach? In this week’s episode we’re very fortunate to have the accomplished and charming Leadership Coach Debra Chantry-Taylor from Business Traction. Who will share her honest journey to becoming what she is today as well as imparting the knowledge she’s accumulated from helping entrepreneurs live a more fulfilling and rewarding life.


Ryan Debra

This podcast was proudly produced by NZ Audio Editors. For all your editing services you can find us on the world wide web at

Ryan J Melton and Greg Moyle From One Plan for Retirement would like to welcome you to the NZ Guide to Financial Freedom. In this podcast we’ll breakdown the psychological tools and financial framework you need to live the life you want to ensure you don’t run out of money before you run out of life.

Well, we’ve got the one and only Good Morning superstar that talked about insurance[SM1] , Debra, but just as we kick it off cos we’re gonna bring finance in someway into the conversation, this is the one question, um, maybe it will go onto finance I don’t know, but what is your version of financial freedom?

I think financial freedom is having the means to do what you really love in life, so that is the freedom to, you know, be able to take time out to do things. It’s not just about money but it’s actually about being able to be free across the board, so taking time out for the stuff that you love, being able to go where you want to go, being able to enjoy things with people that you love. It’s all about, basically, enabling your life that you love.

Flexibility in a sense where – because that’s the thing a lot of businesses we had a guest, Murray Phillips who was talking about how he’s a chartered accountant and one of his clients who walked in was asleep on his desk and that’s a common narrative where people are working very hard almost like on a treadmill because theyre not thinking strategically, but I’d be curious how you sort of came to be this business coach because I imagine it’s not all sunshine and rainbows and you know.

Yeah, yes and no. There’s a few sunshine and rainbows in there but no definitely not. So I’ve been a business coach for the last 11 years now, before that I used to run businesses for other people so I worked my way up from a sort of sales and marketing person, I’ve been to general management, and… that’s my dog sneezing.

We’ve got a dog sneezing

Sneezing or something in the corner over there. Apollo! Yeah, so sorry. It started in a sort of sales and marketing role, worked my way up in other peoples’ businesses eventually got to a point where I was general manager of some rather large companies, always got brought in when the company was kind of flat lining and not getting any growth, and my job was then to kind of turn that around and take them back into a growth phase again. So I did that for a number of years probably about 20 years of my life, and then suddenly went I wouldn’t mind doing this for myself. So I went out on my own started a business it was back in, and and you won’t even remember these days, but back in the days of WAP which was Mobile Internet on your phone

Which is a song now, just so you know by Cardi B

Ok great!

It’s an inappropriate song. Yes, carry on with your WAP.

So WAP was basically – it was Wireless Access Protocol. It was the first version of mobile internet on phones when we had old bricks that were kind of black and greens and everything was menu driven. So we started a business that actually developed these WAP sites and we had some really cool customers like we had Resene, we had Warner Brothers, we had Sony, all these guys who were wanting to get kind of into this space and develop kind of tools on the mobile phone very, very early on. And we created a great business, we then went into text marketing, we then went into developing websites and doing content management systems, way before there was things like WordPress, and Wix and all those things, and had a great couple of years, like really, really fun, live the high life, really enjoyed it. And then we kind of had a massive train crash. And everything went very, very pear shaped very, very quickly. And whilst I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy, I think we learned more through that process than all the process of being successful. So we had 14 staff that we had to lay off, we went through the whole process of, you know, working through that with them. And what I realized was that at that point, I never wanted anybody else to go through what I had gone through with that. And so I took all of my knowledge that I had from running large businesses, running my own business, and got approached by the Icehouse to go and work with them as a business coach and that’s where it all started.

So on there, like now you look through the filter of what you’ve learned in the being a business coach, like what do you think sort of came and stuck with WAP?

Well I think with, with our business as such, I think that we weren’t keeping an eye on the things that were important. So I think when you’re in business, but in business and personal life, you’ve got to be really clear about what the important things are in your life, and you have to keep track of them. And I think we got so engrossed in the fighting of the fires that trying to get stuff done, that we lost sight of what was important. And as a consequence, before we knew it, we were in trouble. Whereas if we’d been keeping an eye on things on a regular basis, we would have actually learned a lot earlier that we had to change what we were doing.

Okay, yeah, so how does it sound, like, so let’s say you were to give advice on yourself and you went into organization, do you have a process for strategy that allows you not to end up in that like, every Saturday I sit down, I don’t always manage it. But I try and think strategically sometimes I have to work on the coalface Is there a process, you have to allow that not to happen?

I think there’s a couple of things. I mean, I think, first of all, having regular meetings and communicating with your team at the same time, same day, every single week, and then looking at the things that are important so looking at those measurables. And making sure you know exactly where you’re at. Now, I encourage you to look at them over a period of times, because it’s not just that one figure that you’re looking at, but is there a trend? Is the trend upwards? Is it downwards? Is that an issue? Is it an opportunity. And so looking at those every single week with your team, even in your personal life, you can do it as a family, you know, looking at a family and going, Hey, what does this mean for us? How are we tracking in terms of what’s important in our family life, if you’re doing that every single week, you start to pick up on things that are an issue or an opportunity. And the second thing is, I think you mentioned having a clarity break, which is where you actually take some time out a good hour, go away from everything. That could be different places. Personally, I like being in the park, but it could be you know, if you enjoy fishing, if you enjoy whatever it might be, get yourself completely away from everything, turn off all technology, take a good old fashioned pen and paper, and just sit there and be with yourself for a while and see what comes. Because strategic thinking in my opinion can only happen when you have that. You don’t have everything going around in your brain, when you’ve got that clarity, I suppose the space to actually think about things.

How do you free yourself up do you use any sort of process apart from like, is it just isolation and an area that you feel comfortable and you’re not triggering emotions? You know, like I’m in the office? I’m thinking, is that how you get in that state of mind?

No, yeah, I think finding a place that you feel really comfortable in. And where there are going to be no distractions for you. Depends on what works for you. I mean, it could, it could be I mean, we’re in office right here, right now, if this is a nice quiet place, and there aren’t distractions for you, then this could be the right space. But for me, it’s getting out in nature. It’s sitting down away from everybody, away from all the technology. I’m very, very, I’m an entrepreneur, myself very easily distracted. So I sit in the room, I’m already looking at the ladies working over at the desk on their own. I’m looking at this stuff on the shelves, so I actually need more of a blank slate to be in. Otherwise I will go Oh, look. Oh,

look right over there.

So if we get you back, we have to get curtains and take everything out. White walls. Make it small.

Okay, but yeah, so somewhere where you feel comfortable, where you’re not going to get distracted, and just going to have that freedom to think about what’s important.

There’s a good book on that. The War of Art.

Yeah, I’ve not read that. But I think you mentioned it when we caught up last time.

Yeah, it’s just two points. I was trying to advocate ‘Why We Sleep’. That’s the book I was promoting. Yeah, um, but yeah, the War of Art. It talks about like, there was an interview between the guy that wrote Game of Thrones, and Stephen King.

Oh, yeah.

And the guy that wrote Game of Thrones, George or something, I think, can’t remember. We need someone like Joe Rogan, with Jamie looking at a fat chick[SM2] . Yeah. But he asked him, ‘Stephen, how can you write so much?’


And he just said, Every day I write six pages no matter what, even if it’s garbage. Yeah. And people always wait for inspiration. But every time at nine o’clock, it starts. So with this strategy, it’s just like, every time because when when I wrote a book, I don’t like writing, particularly. And it’s slow. And I was really like, I wanted to cry. And so because I was doing it over December, I don’t want to be doing this. And I said right in 17 days, and like, how am I gonna? So every time you just turn up, you start writing and through that free association, where you’re not actually overthinking, like, if you were to give someone a story, and you say, tell me a story about an ostrich an elephant, and two leprechauns, they’ll start freezing, unconscious thought clouds creativity. So the more you think the less you can flow. So it’s actually as soon as you have that moment you start. So in that instance, if they’re coming to do that strategy session, you just start, you don’t have to know where it’s going. You start flowing, you take away those distractions.

And that’s why I say a blank piece of paper. I mean, that’s at least as simple as that is literally going out there with a pen and a pad. And with nothing preempted that you’re just going out there to think about whatever comes into your mind at that time. But you as you said, consistency, just like Stephen King said, you know, you need to actually commit to on a regular basis, no point in just doing it once off and thinking, right, well, that’s done. It’s a consistent thing, weekly meetings, weekly clarity breaks, they will actually help you to remove yourself from what I went through, and that the business that kind of failed, which was fighting fires all the time. And when you’re fighting fires all the time you get exhausted, you make really bad decisions. You know, it’s just not a great space to be in. So you need to get yourself away from that

On that note, I’m afraid it’s a bit of a controversial viewpoint. He’s from Ethiopia. Oh, yeah. And he says he only trusted doctor that someone’s died with them, you know, or they’ve killed, no sense because they’re, they’re not complacent. They’re aware of what can happen. So with your experience, and some people go ‘oh why would I listen to someone that’s had a failed business’, but they are exactly the person that you should be listening to because they, they’ve assessed that, they’ve created a successful business out of it.


And you’re not complacent because you know what happens. It’s always at the back of your mind, reminding yourself.

That’s right.

It was also um, around the mindset space, you had an interesting thing where you have like getaways. And yeah, I want to talk about that a bit more like what,

tell the listeners give it a bit of context? And how would they structure things to improve mindset?

Yeah, I mean, there’s I mean, we used to have some very, very structured weekend away retreats, which was absolutely fantastic. That was about getting people out of their normal everyday environment into a beautiful environment, and actually exploring deep down what holds them back. And, you know, what, what they – where they want to be where they are right now, and how we can actually help them to get there. But I think in terms of mindset in general? Do you work with a coach?

I would say, Greg would be my coach

Coach or a mentor?

Yeah, in different facets of my life, I’d say every person in my life, I have a coach in some sense.

And I, think I mean, I certainly do. And I think it’s really, really important because I think that working with somebody externally, A) it gives you a chance, like a release where you can talk to somebody about things you might not talk about with other people, and B) they have a more objective view of things. So they can actually help you to structure your thinking. And I think that they can, you know, they can help you when you’re down, they can certainly bore you up when you need that. But they really do push you to think a lot more about what is really going on. So I think when we get if we just work on our own, we’ve got no real accountability, we’re able to kind of brush over things, we’re able to, you know, I suppose minimize things and not think they’re all that important. Whereas if you’ve got somebody who’s there holding you accountable, somebody you can talk to someone you can really get into the deep, the deep side of things, you’ll get deeper in terms of your thinking and changing the way that you think mindset wise

Well, like trying to change your own mind, on your own without any external influences similar to try and have a boxing match and an identical twin,

Yes, exactly

The same tools you’re trying to overcome. They’re using to get it against you. Because a lot of us, we don’t actually seek the truth, we try and confirm what we already know. Yeah. So you need someone-

Well you see that on social media, right? I always thought there was millions and millions of leadership business and personal coaches in the world, because all of my feed is always around coaches. And then you kind of realize No, that’s because that’s the space that I’m in. And that’s what gets presented to me. So it kind of reinforces a certain belief. Yeah.

So it shows what, um, things you want to see not what you need to see. Yeah, and you have, like, all the elections, you have all these people that feel as though they’re attacked or feeling though there’s an enemy around them, but it’s really just the algorithm feeding them, that sort of thing, then the algorithm creates the actual external experience where they find evidence. Yeah. Because people have gotten that mindset. So I don’t know how that changes? That people become mindful of the influence they have. I’m actually similar to, you know, like, on Facebook, all I just see is like people in the marketing space or finances. And unfortunately, there’s not a lot of people in the marketing space in the financial world. You have the property, guys.


Yeah, the insurance guys, the mortgage brokers, but not financial planners. Okay, cuz it’s boring. Yeah. Because we just say the same thing for 30 years, because it works. It’s not exciting. It’s not great. It’s not 10% return. It’s not. It’s just like, what do you want to do? Let’s say, that puts you to sleep. But

I think business is similar, though. And I really do. I mean, I think that, whilst there’s always new books coming out, when you actually look at the core of it, it’s actually about getting back to basics. And back to the simple things. And if you can get those simple things, right, that’s when you actually, you know, start to achieve in business. So it’s interesting, because I do I see a lot of these things like, Oh, you know, just do this one thing, you’ll become an overnight success, or just do this one course and suddenly become a multimillionaire. And yet, there are certain people who definitely make it. But in reality, most businesses that are long term sustainable, it’s just about getting the basics right from the beginning, and making sure that you keep it really simple throughout.

So what’s your version of basics? What would be the fundamentals of a good business owner?

So I think there’s a – I mean, obviously, I work with the EOS system, which talks about the six components of the business, and we talk about things. So the vision is the first, the first most important thing, you’ve got to know where you’re headed, why you’re headed there. And you’ve got to have everybody on the same page in terms of knowing what where they’re going and what we know how they’re going to get there. And then having the right people. So obviously, you know, if you’ve got the right people, that makes a massive difference in the business, and I know through my corporate career, but also in terms of running businesses, just one wrong person in business can actually make a huge difference to the way the business actually operates. So having the right people in the right seats, doing the right things that’s really important. The measurable stuff, you know, what is it that we actually measure? There’s lots of vanity metrics out there where you can kind of go, Oh, look, we’ve got this many followers on Facebook or Instagram. And that’s great. But what does it really mean? And so we always talk about, you know, what are the real key measurables of success that you need to be looking at and looking at them consistently. And I use the example of you know, imagine you’re on a nice tropical island and you’re sitting there sipping your cocktail and the cabana boy comes across, and he brings you a piece of paper and it’s got up to 13 numbers on it, those 13 numbers should be the ones that tell you if your business is successful or not. And if you haven’t got to those 13, maximum, preferably more of five, then you know, you’re not really measuring the business. Next would be things like making sure that you have that regular communication, regular meeting pulse so that your team always knows when you’re meeting you, you’re discussing all the issues, you’re getting to the bottom of them, making sure that you’re identifying issues on the way and issues are not just negative, but they could be opportunities. So you know, what are those issues, opportunities, making sure we’re keeping track of them and actually solving them, rather than just discussing them all the time? And then finally, just some traction in terms of you know, does everybody know what they have to do to move forward towards that goal? If you can get those kind of – there’s six key things, if you can get those six key things under control, then your business will be successful.

Yeah, makes sense. A lot of like, a lot of my background was being in sales and management. Yeah. And usually when you have a top salesman, that’s fallen off in terms of performances. It’s just coming back to the basics and reminding themselves why it worked what it worked. Yeah. And then they just went off on a tangent. That wasn’t the normal process, didn’t realize that’s what was happening. So the metrics come in.


So be curious from the alignment in the meetings, because people are resistant to it, or people like it too much. So let’s say a medium size business


They’ve got all these people come in for their meeting,


And then there’s Bob talking about fishing and what he did on the weekend, you got Sydney talking about how she’s disappointed in Sally or whatever, and it’s just going on and on and on. Yeah. And then it’s not productive. Like, is it? I have heard of it. It’s a bit over the top where they talk about doing a stand up meeting, they seem a bit full on. But how do you keep it on task or make them productive? Sit a three-hour long.

So we have a thing on level 10 meeting tool, and we reckon that meetings should never go for longer than 90 minutes. Now they can go, they can finish earlier, that’s absolutely fine, but never longer than 90 minutes. Because that way people coming into the meeting, they know what time it starts and what time it finishes. And that’s really, really important. Because I mean, how many times have you had people who don’t want to go to the meetings because they’re bored or they you know, they sit down they play on their phone. So having that that regular time having a regular standard agenda, so you know what you’re talking about, and making sure there’s no other distractions in the meeting. So some healthy meeting rules. So in our meetings we go there’s no there’s no technology in the meetings. There’s no sidebars. So I can’t sit here and whisper to you that we’re a bit pissed off with Jordan over there or I have a different conversation around, you know, what’s going on. So we have no sidebars, no electronic communications, be present in the meeting and make sure that you are participating, we talk about being it’s a privilege to participate. So make sure that you actually take advantage of that and participate. And with having a structured agenda, we usually work through that the measurables and things first, so very, very quickly, are we on track? are we off track? Or are rocks on track? is a scorecard on track? What are our key customer and employee headlines? And you cover those often? In very, very short? Are we on track? are we off track, and if something comes out of that it becomes an issue. And we only get to deal with the issues, we get to the meaty part of the meeting. And in that 60 minutes, we talk about the issues with the pure intention of solving them. And we go through and we actually rank them, we go, Hey, what’s the most important number one issue? What’s number two, what’s number three, and we pick those three, and we start working through them. And we use that 60 minutes to kind of identify that issue, discuss it, solve it, and then get on with it. And we use – I like to use little fun things in the meetings to make sure everybody does participate. So in my meeting room, which I don’t think you got to see the other today, we’ve actually got a whole range of fluffy toys in there. So we have an Elmo, which stands for ‘enough, let’s move on’. We have an elephant, which is the classic elephant in the room, you know that we haven’t talked about. And then we’ve got a dog and the dog is like you, you know, you’re like a dog with a bone give it up already. So it means we can grab those things and kind of hold them up and go, hey, there’s an elephant in this room, or, hey, I’ve had enough of this. Let’s move on already. And so just trying to encourage people to very much engage in solving the issues, but not to labour on things. We’re not there for a talk fest we’re there to get issues resolved.

Yeah, I think that’s probably one of the most important aspects of a meeting is helping facilitate an environment where no matter what the type of person they are, they can contribute because, yeah, you may not like having different mental mind maps in your organizations, but you need it like

Diversity is huge is hugely important. And I think that you’ve also got to make sure in that meeting, you’ve got introverts and extroverts. Obviously, I’m an extrovert. But there’s you know, introverts think very differently. You’ve got to make sure when you’re facilitating that meeting, that everybody has a chance to give some input into it in their different ways. And and I just think that, yeah, you have to have that diversity. You’ve got to have the uncomfortable conversations. You know, if I’m honest, I’ve had meetings where people have ended up in tears. I’ve had meetings where, you know, there’s been literally kind of people’s – I’ve got a photo actually of a client strangling another client, and in a joking way, but it was that level of frustration, but you have to have that. And then you have to work through it. Because if you don’t work through that, you don’t get better. You know, you just you stagnate and that’s not what we want.

Oh, definitely not what we want. Yeah. So I’ll be I’ll be curious, like. So you obviously you’ve had your experiences and challenges and you’ve done well, yep. Well, what are the common mistakes Do you think that you see and medium organizations or large organizations where they come unstuck?

I think small, medium, large. And even in our personal life, we over complicate things. You know, there is a natural tendency as a human being to overcomplicate things. So the amount of times I’ve gone into an organization or into a family, and just seeing how over complicated things have become. And so it’s about you know, keeping it simple getting back to those basics, not over complicating it. Yeah.

So what what do you think leads to the complexity,

The human brain, the human brain, so the stuff that goes on in our mind, some of the you know, some of it comes from things like our own personal issues, and our inner critic and wanting, you know, I see so many people who are trying to prove something about who they are. And, and if you can remove that need or desire to do that, you can get back to the root of the stuff that’s really important. And sometimes people have, I think, in businesses, particularly, they have started it because they’re really passionate about the business. And the business has grown usually quite rapidly. And then all of a sudden, they’re doing stuff that they’re not really good at doing or don’t enjoy doing. And so it’s about going back to, you know, why is it you first started in the first place? What is your why, why are you doing this, and then also, making sure you’re only doing the stuff that you’re really good at, and that you love, if you don’t, if you’re not really good at it, you don’t love it, don’t do it, delegate it. Because if you start, if you’re trying to do everything yourself, you’ve got this massive opportunity cost that you are missing out on. So I always say to all of my clients, if you don’t have a house cleaner, you’re nuts. Because unless you absolutely love house cleaning, why would you do that? I mean, if you think about your hourly rate, my hourly rate, it makes no sense whatsoever for me to be cleaning my bathroom and my kitchen once a week. And if I can free up three hours from that, and do three hours of things that I really love and enjoy, it makes me feel better. Same in business, you know, we know what we uniquely, well, innately you’re really good at. And if you can, I encourage clients to actually write down ‘Hey, you know, what are the things that you’re good at and that you love and what are the things you’re not’, and actually be really, really honest about it. And the stuff that is in the quadrants, which is you know, either you’re not good at or you don’t enjoy, immediately get rid of it. And once you do that, you’re freed up to do the stuff that you’re really really good at. And that’s where not only the love comes back into it but also the opportunities come because I – you know, abundance mindset if you’re, if you’re in a very high energy high frequency out there, enjoying what you’re doing, you attract a lot more of the right stuff.

Sure. Gary Vee, just calls it um, hire people that are good at what you don’t like.


Um, and it’s most people I come across business owners. They have a job.


A business.

Yeah, that’s right.

They can’t replace themselves. Is there do you ever work on the exiting side of things? Like where people are thinking, hey, I want to structure my business in such a way. So it’s autonomous, works without me?


Do you do some of that? Or is it mainly helping them grow?

No, it’s, I mean, that is part of what we do. If you think about it, I always ask people right at the beginning, why are you in this business? And what do you want out of it. And you know, a lot of people say, I just want to sell it, and I want to exit and that’s an option. But some people don’t realize you can actually create an amazing business and keep it as a cash cow, and not have to be involved on a day to day basis. So we look at what’s important for them, we look at what they want out of their life, and we create the business around what they want out of life. So that is really kind of an exit planning. So it may not be exit as in sale. But it could be or it’s an exit, it could be an exit in terms of ‘I’m not going to be involved in the day to day running of the business anymore’. And so, as you said, most business owners, and I think particularly Kiwi business owners, we have a number eight wire mentality, we can do everything ourselves. So we do do everything ourselves. And that’s a noose around your neck, because you – I’ve got business owners when they come to me who can’t even take a holiday, because if they take a holiday, they’re too scared, the business will fall down around them. Well, that’s not a business that is, you know, that’s dangerous. So we look at, you know, what can we do to get this business running with that I’m talking about business owners who might have 30,40 staff even, who don’t want to go on holiday, because they don’t believe the business will actually, you know, run without them. So you have to look at that and go, hey, come on, what can we do to create this business that it will run without you? And what do you want to do in that business? Do you really want to be that involved? Surely, you’d much rather be you know, what are you good at? What are you – if you’re the big picture person who loves making connections and big, you know, big picture relationships, then let’s get you doing that instead, you can bring other people in underneath you to do the bits you don’t need to do.

Well is it challenging when you come across that? Because most as well, to generalisers they’re the very bottom line focus.


They’re not necessarily long term. I used to work as a garbage man when I was younger.

Did you?

Yeah. We moved 12 tonnes a day. 10 kilometers.


So I wouldn’t reckon – it’s very, if you want to get fit, you’ll get it done. Yeah. But they had a fleet of trucks that were really old.


And they had a huge maintenance cost. because it kept breaking down, right. And there was an instance actually where the handbrake didn’t work. So you had to drive and lean it against the curb.

Oh my god. Okay.

So it’s like that level of bottom line short term thinking and keeping the shareholders happy.


Inhibits the business. And like, another space you’re quite good at is in the marketing space and brand equity, because you talked about a one of the early, early ones on LinkedIn, but also an article blew up.

Oh, yes, that’s right. Yeah, actually, that was – no that was actually around, that’s um, it was around writing a business plan using tweets. So again, coming down to that, the idea of simplifying everything, we go to write a business plan, and we think it has to be this massive, great big document that is, you know, there’s two types of business plans, the business plan for the bank for getting finance, sure. You need that. But for a business plan for operating a business, it should be simple. And so the article I wrote on LinkedIn was in, big back in the early days, when there were very, very few authors on LinkedIn. And I just talked about let’s write business plans as if you were tweeting it, you got 144 characters for each of the sections of the business plan, do it in that. And I think we got, I can’t remember the exact numbers, but it was a hundreds of thousands people actually kind of read the article and lots of comments and things. So it was great. But again, it comes back to that thing of simplifying, everything needs to be simplified down. And I think back to your thing about the rubbish truck business, I think that, I mean, I’ve worked with a lot of boards over here in New Zealand as well. And I’m actually quite surprised by some of the boards of quite large organizations still are quite short term focus. And, and they do and they’re looking at their bottom line, whereas, you know, we have to invest in order to create more money. And it’s that whole preventative maintenance, like, do the things before something goes wrong, means it actually ends up costing you a lot less. So people don’t often look at the consequences of not doing that preventative stuff, thinking it’s going to save them money. I’ve seen, I’ve seen businesses where you know, the owner has decided to build their own website, and you go, hey, look, I know you can, and I know that, you know, it’s gonna save you money. But is it really, when you’re going to spend three or four weeks of your time building something when somebody who’s an expert can do it and get it done really quickly? And, yes, it’s gonna cost you some money. But then what could you do with that three or four weeks of your time doing something else? Now that’s in small businesses, but in some of the large businesses I work with, you know, I’m not going to name and shame but I’ve got a business that’s got 26 staff oh 32 now, actually, and the owner of that business still answers the emails that come in on the info at. Now, that is something that really could be outsourced. And we’re working through that, you know, because at the end of the day, it was different if it would be, if it was her thought leadership stuff, I would expect her to definitely respond to that. But the info at, you know, I’m pretty certain somebody else could be doing that kind of work.

Yeah, I

And this is a business that’s been going for over 23 years,

Man, that’s impressive. Because I, because I honestly think as well, I mean, where some CEOs come unstuck is that they lose touch on, I guess the bottom line where people, the, the foot soldiers of shorts, what the consumers are thinking, and they slowly get the separation and lack of empathy. So I agree in terms of not doing the menial tasks, but always having an overview of each, each sector in some ways, because I see a lot of business owners or partnerships come unstuck[SM3] because of a lack of knowledge. So it’s not, hey, you should do the website. It’s just like, Hey, you should understand the website, so that doesn’t lead to you being I guess, taken advantage of.

And that’s something – you interviewed Chelsea a few weeks ago around social media coaching. And that’s exactly her philosophy as well. It’s like, you don’t have to do your own social media. But you do have to understand how it works. And, you know, to be fair, I actually do outsource some of my social media stuff the, the more generic stuff, but I always always do my own things as well. And I always respond to anything that comes in from that. So you know, I have some help to generate some of the content. But at the same time, you know, you’ve got to actually be, we’re humans, we do business with humans. We don’t do business with robots.

Yeah. And it’s simple. Like, anyone that’s wanting to do that sort of thing, where they want to create content at scale. That’s exactly why we’re filming this, you know, yeah, it’s no added time.


And anytime I’m coming across, so I’m getting valuable insights from knowing you, we’re building a connection, something positive come – could come out, and I may know some business owners that need your help. You may see business owners that are looking to exit and want some support around a retirement plan. Yeah. But it’s all being documented. So whether that becomes something positive, we’re still actually adding value to the audience while we do it.


So for those people that are wanting to get in that marketing space, I would say document. You don’t necessarily have to do a vlog.


But just even then, like you not – might not get a financial gain from running a podcast, but what you could do is interview, like I was saying to Chelsea the other day, is interview potential prospects.


It’s a lot easier to say Hey, would you like to be on my podcast?

Than can I come and talk to you about my business.

Yeah don’t do that! And just say, you know that’s not what I’m doing here, just for reference

And, yeah, it’s, it is interesting, isn’t it? Because I also come across business owners who are very much wanting to keep the, you know, hold of everything. And particularly consultants, I work with a lot of professional services type people, and they kind of go, hey, look, you know, but we can’t give away this information because this is our information. It’s like, seriously, I can hop on the computer right now and I can Google it and I can find it. And I’ve always, I’ve always made the, the promise or the pledge, if somebody was to come to me today and say ‘can you give me an hour long talk tomorrow on any topic’, I reckon I could go and do it. Because I will get on Google, I will Google the hell out of it, I will become a mini expert overnight. And I’ll give an hour long speech tomorrow, and you would never know that I knew nothing about elephants in Africa. But I learned it. And so in reality, that I don’t think any content is particularly new. I just think that people receive it in different ways. And I think the more value you can give to people, then you’re building a relationship. And that’s what it’s all about. Yeah. And one of our values is, you know, help first. And so we often give away books, tools, models, things people can use, just so that they can, because we want everybody to have an amazing business. At the end of the day. My whole thing is about having people doing stuff that they love with people that they love being compensated really well for it, and with time to pursue other passions, because business is not everything. So I want everyone to have that life and if they can have that life. I don’t care. I’ll make money along the way somewhere. But it’s more about being able to help people to get to that point.

So worthwhile vision, we had a podcast guest Verity, I think her last name’s Craft.

Craft, yeah I know Verity

Jesus, everyone knows everyone in Auckland. It’s starting to happen to me now!

So she talks about unapplied knowledge, giveaway for free. And what people pay for is personalization. So I’m happy to tell everything I know. And Greg’s happy to tell you everything he knows. And then really when someone comes in, it’s just like, what do you want from life, and we tailor it to you? I don’t know. I’m not sure what maybe, maybe there’s some prior like technology that if you give out the code that people will turn it but one thing, it inspires you to be better it challenges you to improve what you’re doing, and you actually get other people in to contribute their feedback. And you’re adding value in a community that could help sustain your business when it goes through tough times.

Absolutely. And when I used to work at the Icehouse and, you know, we would, we had a mixture of working with established businesses and startup businesses. And we’d have people who would come in with this great idea about you know, some kind of technology and they, they want you to sign NDA’s and you know, I don’t want to tell you what it is because you’ll go off and do it yourself. The reality is, lots of people have ideas. Lots of people have got great ideas. It’s all in execution.


And most people to be honest, never get around to executing.


So the idea if I’m, if I’m honest, is worth nothing. It’s actually how you take it and do something with it. So you can give it, I could,I could tell you, I mean – I could literally talk for hours, I’ve worked with 500 odd business owners, I could tell you all kinds of stories, and you’d learn from it, and that’d be great. And I would happily do that. Because at the end of the day, you can go off and you can do it on your own. But I tell you what, having somebody else like I do with my coach holding you accountable, holding your hand being there, being your cheerleading squad, being the person who’s going to, you know, perhaps give you a bit of a kick up the ass if you haven’t done your homework is actually what kind of helps you to get where you want to go. Same with your financial planning stuff, right? At the end of the day, I could probably do it myself. But I’m not going to because A) it’s your, you know, it’s your area of expertise. And yeah, it’s a bit like having a personal trainer. I know when I join a gym, I’ve stopped doing it now, used to do it for years, I’ve joined a gym, pay all this money and never go to the gym. Soon as you have a personal trainer. You’re there, you’re you’re doing it. And that’s the only way it works for me.

Greg uses an analogy if, you can do your own electrical work, but you might end up as a black mess in the corner.

Yeah true

Now there’s plenty, there’s plenty stocks is high. There’s, there’s plenty of people that can manage their own money. Yep, for sure. And there’s a lot of tools that are accessible for them. A good example though is the emotional aspect that people don’t take into consideration. So about a quarter of a million New Zealanders changed their Kiwisaver during Covid from growth to conservative, really which is face, basically you find out your car’s worth. You bought it for $10,000 you find out it’s worth $5000. So you sell it. Yeah. And you buy a more reliable car that might not fluctuate as much. So you’ve just lost five grand.


So that’s the thing that, I have a big concern around a lot of people that are direct to investments, they’re using hatch and sharesies and Invest Now, which is great. I don’t see the need for a broker. Yep. It just convolutes things but people are directly invested in a company, they could effectively lose all their money from there. They’re not diversified and then or they’re going in the passive investment, which research suggests passive investments performed better over time because it’s lower fees.


But the Dow Jones during the GFC, which is a major index fund in America went down by 40%.


So the average person that bought it on a whim loses 40% of the money, freaks out, sells.


So it is a big concern. So I agree. Lots of people can do it themselves.


I’m going to improve the financial know-how so they can do better at it. And some people just don’t want to deal with it, and just want someone to sort it. So that’s why unapplied knowledge, you give it as freely and as much as you can. Do you have, ahh, knowledge like that on a website? Or where would, where would people get value from sort of your,

So the website is, and on there, you’ll find a whole range of tools that you can download. So things like level 10 meeting that I’ve talked about, there are tools around a one page business plan, or two page business plan. There’s all kinds of stuff on there. And there’s also a bunch of videos, I again, I openly share. I love a whiteboard. So you’ll see me up there with the whiteboard drawing away, you’ll see me talking, just sharing all this stuff. And depending on the other way you like to learn, there’s videos, there’s written stuff, there’s downloadable tools, all that sort of stuff.

Cool. So I have in the description, the, what I want to offer now is like just the closing remark either, either there’s a Debra going through what you went through, or there’s an organization that could potentially be doing a lot better, but they’re sitting there opening all the emails and not outsourcing. What, what would be something either you want to be known for, or you want them to – some knowledge you want to impart on them.

So I want people to know that we go into business, because we imagine it’s going to give us freedom, imagine that we’re doing what we love. And what often happens is all of that disappears. Because we don’t put in the right systems and the right processes and the right people to actually create a sustainable business that doesn’t rely on you. And so what happens is we lose our passion, we lose our joy for our stuff, and we don’t really get the freedom either. So what I want to do is help people to see that there is actually a way where you can take your existing business, it’s probably doing okay, you know, most businesses are doing okay, but you’re somehow feeling like you’re either trapped or you can’t let go the vine because you don’t feel like you’ve got the right people in there. There is a way of putting in place a really, really simple system that can actually help you over a period of time. There’s no magic silver bullet, but over a period of time to actually release yourself from that business and get back to doing what you love, and creating a better life because I actually believe if you can be doing what you love in your business, it has a direct impact on your life as well. So better business, better life.

Yeah, fair. And if anyone’s got something that they love, and they want the world to hear, and without it being all distorted and horrible, yes, Jordan Grebble. And if you slowly see me fade away it’s also him because he’s a PT. So hit him up, double whammy. Can I get the love myself and love the people loving my content because they can hear it? And we’ll go with that, rate and review and subscribe because people can’t find us if we don’t do that.


So do that.

Please do.

Thanks, Debra.

Thanks very much.

Share This